Timecode into DVX?

F

filmmaker77

Member
I'm filming with a DVX100A, audio is being run separately into a Timecode DAT recorder :
How do I get the timecode from a PD-4 into the DVX100A?
I heard it can't be done and I can't see how either. I think the 100B can but...
Please say it ain't so.

If it IS so...are there work-a-rounds?

And maybe I'm missing something else too in this process.

Any thoughts?
 
no-you cant
you only can synchronize with sticks
put the camera on free run, time of the day is the best , the same on dat ( 29.97 df/ ndf exactly like on your camera ) , hit the sticks every 2 -3 hours or every time you change casset or battery on the dvx
then synchronize every thing on nle , the mistake between the claps has to be the same , so you make it automatically
the other way is record pd 4 tc on one of the audio channels wireless or wire
 
"...the other way is record PD4 TC on one of the audio channels wireless or wire"

Will that mean that they will both have the exact same TC when imported to FCP? That's what I'm shooting for. It's a 90min. feature and having to hand/eyeball sync all the dialogue would be a nightmare.

Does the new sound TC being sent to the camera's audio channel cancel out the camera's native TC?

Sorry for all the specifics, but I want to know what I'm talking about when I approach my sound man.

Side note, for fun: If you're a Stones fan (ie:your screen name), I was lucky enough to record with that album's producer, Jimmy Miller, when I was 18 in my rock band in Boston. He was having some "substance" issues at the time and at the end of his career, but it was still wild.
 
i dont remember if fcp could or could not take tc from audio channel
if iam not mistake there is a n external software which make it ( check it out , might be it fcp native, i dont remember), avid can import tc from audio channel.
the tc on audio channel doesn't cancel your actual tc , but you can replace it in the nle .
i think it waist of time to do it at all . JUST calibrate the camera tc and the pd 4 TC for time of the day FREE RUN TC , slate on the beginning of each scene , the difference in tc will stay the same for at least 2-3 hours until the next slate , so every takes would be synchronize in the same pass automatically , if you change the cassette or battery on one of the machines , slate again .
make sure you running 5 sec of prerol on dat .
now - since you are shooting 23,97 p and the tc is 29.97 alwais on ntsc dvx
make sure your pd run 29.97 and not something else (drop framer as the camera )
to check the stability of your camera - you can shoot the tc display on both recorders with digi camera to see if one of them start to drift



i did a few long shooting that way ( 2,3 cameras with hhb tc dat or 744 ) we almost didnt have any problems , the usual was that one in the week one of the cameras was going mad on tc
thats why is quit important to check every time you close the camera or making pb that the tc wasn't been lost .

Jimmy Miller - - SHAPO



its not a nightmare , you will be fine
 
Forget about using the time code. Work it the same way I did when shooting film, use a slate (clapboard) and sync it that way in the non linear system. The problem is that you have to work with a sound guy and a clapper. As long as the video and the recorder are running at a constant speed there is no problem locking audio and video.
 
Winston - its quit stupid not to take the advantage of automatic syncronazation on nle -

just to clarify - thats the way we shoot film also when we have tc film camera( aaton /arri) - no one waist time on claps or extra synchronization hours in editing room /telesine


filmmaker ,forgot to mention , if you very scared and run tc to your audio channel , AMBIENT SOUND make tc sync generator for dv cameras for that matter .
so you synchronize the generator( jam it) from your dat ( or the other way jam the dat) and place the tc on the audio channel - the synchronization good for at least 4-5 hours( it works on internal battery) so there is no issues about battery replacement or cassette change , or camera on and off/pb
since you are in Nashville you can check with TREW AUDIO what will be the easiest way /cheaper way to do it

if you do - Say hello to Glen from me ( Oleg)

the last one - keep the on board mic open - **** happens
 
hello.

i just got the sound device 744

i believe the hvx-200 will do timecode.

oleg/exile, you mention sending timecode to an audio channel??

can you explain that?

i have 4 channels on the 744t and 2 channels on the dvx-100a

i'd love to find a way to put the timecode onto a channel on the dvx-100a

one stupid question abou timecode and the dvx-100a, if i'm shooting in 24pa and using premiere pro 2.0 with a project setup for 23.976 should i use 23.976 on the 744t???

matthew
 
You can send TC out from the 744t (or any device with TC out) bring the signal into the XLR input, set the levels to -12 and it will record the signal on the audio channel.

Problem is the only way I know to get it read is with an Avid. You capture your footage, highlight in bin and just select READ AUX TC from the special menu. After you import your BWF files into Avid, you just select AUTO SYNC and Bingo, the video and audio automatically sync up. Saves a ton of time even compared to syncing with a TC slate.

I was told awhile back that FCP has a similar option but later when I investigated I was not able to find anything in FCP that does this. If someone knows how to in FCP, please tell us.

BTW, the HVX does TC in/out via firewire so you can sync several HVX's together. Until someone makes something that can read the firewire signal, this HVX does not help in syncing with double system audio. Hopefully Panasonic (and the other camera companies) will start putting TC in/out in the next generation of prosumer cams. It's nice that Canon got it right.

Cheers
 
http://www.gallery.co.uk/timetools.html

thats the outside software which might do it - never checked it if it actually working
the 100b and 200 could be synchronized only between the cameras and not with external devices fru the fire wire \

proper slate /free run tc - is the cheapest way to deal with
matthew - iam really small about 23.976/29.97 mess - we are in pal world dont really care about :-), ask someone in the editing forums
the 100 is alwais recording 29.97
200 ,i dont familiar with , if it record actual 23.976 when you record to p-2 in hd format
 
i figured a denecke slate with the 744t would be a pretty good fix?

it seems that the denecke has timecode as well as the 744t.

is there a way to use a slate that would just show the timecode from the 744t and perhaps be less expensive than the denecke which is not just a slate with digital display but a timecode generator as well?

matthew
 
the digi slate doesn't solve you auto synchronization problem you want not to have in the editing.

ok so you will see running digets and not regullar slate - you won few seconds of announcements and marker work :-)
 
I would disagree to a certain extent with that. What is stupid is the folks who think that because they are running TC they don't need to slate. A lot of films are shot with out TC, even ones with a budget. It is not a big deal to sync sound that has been slated and it is done all the time.

But as long as you can why not do it. If you can get TC out of the DVX (I'm a sound guy so excuse my ignorance of the specifics of the DVX) you could jam the DAT , or better jam them both. Then your TC will be the same.

But honestly I would ask post but I doubt it's an issue, for one thing there aren't too many TC DAT's around. The Saul Zaentz film center had one and Skywalker Sound had I think two. So unless you know that post will have access to a TC DAT your probably wasting time worrying.


ExileOnTheMainStreet said:
Winston - its quit stupid not to take the advantage of automatic syncronazation on nle -

just to clarify - thats the way we shoot film also when we have tc film camera( aaton /arri) - no one waist time on claps or extra synchronization hours in editing room /telesine

.......
if you do - Say hello to Glen from me ( Oleg)

the last one - keep the on board mic open - poo poo happens
Click to expand...
 
slate is good - but this is not the issue - the guy asked how he can prevent slate each take and take the advantage of auto synchronization in post with camera that doesnt export or import tc .
the slate is coming only to be a brake for new point synchronization to prevent drift of one of the devices which usually happens after few hours .
so as we work here - we slate only the thirst take in each scen ( free run tc )
this method save time on slates and time to sync each take on nle
 
ExileOnTheMainStreet said:
slate is good - but this is not the issue - the guy asked how he can prevent slate each take and take the advantage of auto synchronization in post with camera that doesnt export or import tc .
the slate is coming only to be a brake for new point synchronization to prevent drift of one of the devices which usually happens after few hours .
so as we work here - we slate only the thirst take in each scen ( free run tc )
this method save time on slates and time to sync each take on nle
Click to expand...

Not quite. what he asked was
"I'm filming with a DVX100A, audio is being run separately into a Timecode DAT recorder :
How do I get the timecode from a PD-4 into the DVX100A?
I heard it can't be done and I can't see how either. I think the 100B can but...
Please say it ain't so.

If it IS so...are there work-a-rounds?

And maybe I'm missing something else too in this process.

Any thoughts"

If you don't want to use slates, that's up to you and whatever poor shmoe has to do post. Personally I consider slates the same as two pops, they are a requirement. It is poor practice not to slate and it creates work in post. I'm confused as to where post is saving time in your scenario. They have a string of takes that they now have to go to the paperwork to figure out what is what. Maybe this works because your not shooting features? I could see it might make sense in a news shoot and edit the same day work flow. And I cant imagine how the 10 sec. it takes to slate is going to add up to more than the editor having to look up take numbers from the shooting report so he/she can name the takes correctly.
SK
 
sorry - but why should person want to take time code to other recorder if not to synchronize it automatically on nle:-)?

since time is money we work here differently then you :-)
we synchronize( slate ) only the first take every couple hours and the other 30 are following that with matching tc until one of the devices starts to drift , then we slate again.
- so tell me ,why someone want do it and slate each take if he can slate one from the 30-40 .

so not only we eliminate clapper person on the shot , we also eliminate waisting money in the post to sit and synchronize 80-120 takes , double if it more then one camera ( 25-setups for each camera , i personally worked with 3 cameras so it was more then 250 per day)
where is the take begins - there is alwais continuity person logs which incl tc ins and other necessary stuff . and it goes to the editor as you know .

by the way - in our region the editor doesn't do this dirty job , after shooting ,the audio and video synchronized by the assistant - (very cheap person who wants to become editor one day:-)) logged , putted in bins and properly named on the computer
, so actually the editor not even looking in the notes usially they are sort of meta data which sits with the takes - that way every one happy - espacilly the producer who pays.

tc is a good when it works :-)
 
Well to tell the truth a lot of times I have seen TC DATs used on film shoots where there was no corresponding film TC and so no real purpose for the TC DAT so it didn't strike me as obvious that they would be using TC to auto conform, but it is a reasonable assumption, so you got me. If it's working for you great. It isn't saving you time it's just being shifted to an assistant who has to hope the notes are right since there is no reference on the audio or video of what take your at. And your right even here, except on the lowest of budgets, it's an assistant who would be doing the digitizing.
Personally I would have a problem with this but I'm out of the narrative feature world and the economies are a bit different.
So I think slates are under used but I have to agree, when TC works life is sweet.

Time is very much money here also. It's just that a miss logged take or a lost take is a lot more costly than the slate is. But this is probably more of an issue with film than video so my experience may be slightly skewed in this respect.
 
tc dats are very helpful even you actually dont use its tc in the editing ( non tc film ) .
we dont make audio telesins here - dats straight to avid ( at least last 6-7 years), so these who like to change the avid omf cuts for better from originally dats , the tc become a life saiver for auto confirm in audio post .
about the atomization with tc to save money - it saves allot of time - these underpaid persons time in editing and of course these who are on the set . 100 slates a day become to extra hour, so if you multiply it by 40 people on the set it really become nice sum and if you multiply by 30 days it becomes nice new Porsche to the producer or at least stay on the budget when he already with extra hours .( really, we are talking 10 pages a day with 2 cameras - you can figure your self) .
and i never heard that some one lost a take because it wasn't slated ( of course logged properly with tc , on video shotes )
about the non tc film - the world dindt change a bit, we are slating each take - but as you already know we are not in the film land here .
and not as in USA,the 16 mm now in 80% at least here and Europe is a tc world so we also dont slate and no one complain :-)why should they , they dont have to synchronize by hand
 
ExileOnTheMainStreet said:
about the non tc film - the world dindt change a bit, we are slating each take - but as you already know we are not in the film land here .
and not as in USA,the 16 mm now in 80% at least here and Europe is a tc world so we also dont slate and no one complain :-)why should they , they dont have to synchronize by hand
Click to expand...

Sort of what I was owning up to, my advice was probably not so on target for video, and of course that is where we are.
SK
 
tc - who will need it few years from now when the data will flow directly to the main bank on set or editing facility
and as i see it, it wouldn't happen in your region first - you are 2 conservative in SF :-)
 
I'm not sure SF is so conservative, LA yes. I suspect that your correct. In a couple of years image and sound will both be streamed directly to central servers. I suspect in ten years that very few films will be shot on film and even fewer will be distributed on film. Part of me finds this depressing but part is excited.
SK
 
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