Time for a new camera: AF100, 5D Mark II, or other??

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filmguy123

Veteran
My timeline is between now and March 2012-(ish). For strictly camera/lens/memory gear I currently own:

HVX200
16gb P2
64gb P2
5x batteries
Polorized filter

For the work I do, this is just not cutting it anymore. I do live event coverage PROMO montages (NOT 1-2 hour long tripod-based recordings). I do stylized edits and prefer filmic looking pieces. I don't often need chunks of footage that clock in at over 8-10 minutes for these event montages, music videos, sports action, etc. However, there ARE times I do (weddings, etc.) and audio capture options are always good for some different jobs... and I definitely need good audio pickup for talking head/interview pieces and what not.

I am debating a few options:

- Sell the HVX200 and put the gear towards a better do-it-all camera setup
- Keep the HVX200 and spend less on new camera gear and have 2 cameras

Really not sure what ALL the options are on the market at the moment, or what's right around the corner. The Red Scarlet has finally come and in my eyes, over-promised and under-delivered. It's too expensive, too proprietary, and frankly I wish I would have just picked up a 7D or 5D a couple years back. Oh well.

Thoughts on picking up an AF100, or a 5D Mark II, or perhaps waiting for something right around the corner in the next 3-6 months? Or, any current or upcoming Panasonic cameras that will put my P2 investment to use?

Depth of Field, low light, latitude, lens choices, and 60p over-cranking are all important to me. I love the filmic look.

Thanks for the pointers :)
 
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Look into the Panasonic HPX250; it won't gain you shallow depth of field (maintains 1/3" sensors) but you'll keep the same batteries and P2 and gain smooth 22x zoom and far better light sensitivity.

Alt 1: The AF100 is very good at most of the things you mention - long record times are possible, audio in is great, overcranks, undercranks, and can execute the whole shallow-DOF schtick with aplomb. Can effectively use any lens out there, provided you don't mind the 2x crop. However, there are no smooth zooms. Another alternate is a Sony FS100 - it edges slightly more towards being a DSLR than a video camera (no built-in NDs, less flexible viewfinder/LCD, shaped like a brick with brick-like ergonomics), but also works quite well.

Alt 2: Keep the HVX, add either Canon T2/3i or Panasonic GH2. I ran with a HVX/GH2 combo for a while, and they work well together. GH2 handles the shallow focus and low light stuff swimmingly, and can also manage a long record time. HOWEVER, the GH2 and T2/3 only capture 60p at 720.
 
If you have 3-6 months, take 5 and re-evaluate then. Prices will have dropped on most current gear, new stuff (5DIII? D800?) should be out, and you'll have banked more money on your current gear. If there's no rush, don't rush it...
 
The HPX370 isn't my favorite but for what it does its cheap. New around $10K with lens. I found a New one on ebay for $7200 with lens.
http://tinyurl.com/cgvpu2s

Maybe a used HPX500. Pretty nice 2/3 chip camera. Used around $10K. Maybe with a lens. 2/3 B4 are very available these days.
http://tinyurl.com/chjevd6

These are in know way cheap alternatives but for event stuff it sure is easier to shoot with ENG cameras and longer lenses.
 
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I agree, and if you are looking for a HPX-500 package let me know as I will be selling mine with lens and batteries soon.
 
Hmm... thanks for all the info!!

The AF100 does sound tempting, BUT, so does the HPX250.

One thought I had was selling the HVX200 body only and upgrading to the HPX250 body only (and using all my same batteries, P2 cards), and then hanging tight until the 5D Mark III comes out perhaps early next year? (I really, really want that shallow DoF and full-on film look - and I feel like the AF100 might be a sort of compromise to get it, but I'd keep the long form record time of the HVX... but if I get an HPX250 *and* 5D Mark III I have two cameras which I need, with two different use case scenarios... all for cheaper than HPX500 (factoring in selling the HVX200) without compromise on either end.

Thoughts on that approach?
 
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mkfotos.com said:
AF100/FS100/F3/C300 all have 'filmic' DoF. The 5DII is considerably shallower than normal film when used for, umm, filming.

http://shootintheshot.joshsilfen.co...ii-and-7d-depth-of-field-is-less-always-more/
Click to expand...

Ah, interesting! Thanks for sharing. What would you have to say about the AF100 vs 7D?

Two things that make my uneducated (at the moment) self nervous about the AF100:

* Micro 4/3rds sensors as oppossed to a more "normal" or "universal" lens system that the 7D/5D Mark II or other cameras would use?
* Micro 4/3rds sensor and the associated crop factor...
* No AVC Intra / P2 support :/
 
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I have three 5DII's, have shot with a 7D, and don't own nor will I own a 7D. For most things video I much prefer the 5D... but I've stopped shooting video with my 5Ds since getting the AF100. I consider it to be the best movie camera for the money, followed by the FS100. In another pay grade, I'd own the F3, or possibly the C300, but I don't have that kind of money, or need.

- actually, the AF100 has possibly the most universal lens mount around, as it can take almost any lens ever made; you can't even stick Canon glass on a Nikon
- do you mean the ~1.14X crop factor to normal movie film?
- there's nearly a year of solid evidence that that AF100 is just fine with even mediocre SD cards... but if that's not your thing, you can spend a little more and buy nicer cards, including Panasonic's pro grade; if that's not enough, it's not a bad idea to invest in an external recorder, but that's true regardless of which camera you shoot with
 
I suppose transcoding to ProRes or some other codec isn't so bad... slash most NLE's now are getting much slicker at editing native h.264...

I suppose I don't have THAT large of a P2 investment, and can sell the 2 cards (16gb/64gb) that I have, and I suppose SD cards are a more universal storage medium and probably a better investment than P2 anyway...

I didn't realize the AF100 mount was so universal...

Are there any websites/blogs describing & showing with pictures/video the comparative crop factor of the AF100 to a 5D, 7D, film camera, etc? I don't fully understand what I'd be compromising on here, or if it's much of a big deal.

Lastly - what would you recommend for a full on AF100 kit? (lenses, rails, memory cards, etc.)? I want everything to be as universal as possible, so when I switch out of the AF100 in the future I can use my glass down the road with other cameras, or be able to swap lenses with friends (some friends have Canon 5D and lenses, it'd be nice to swap lenses with them as well).
 
The AF100 crop factor to a 7D or film camera is 1.18.

Compared to a 5D, it's 2.0.

If you're looking for the "movie" look, you're not compromising really anything. The sensor is very very slightly smaller than 35mm cinema film.
 
filmguy123 said:
I suppose transcoding to ProRes or some other codec isn't so bad... slash most NLE's now are getting much slicker at editing native h.264...

I suppose I don't have THAT large of a P2 investment, and can sell the 2 cards (16gb/64gb) that I have, and I suppose SD cards are a more universal storage medium and probably a better investment than P2 anyway...

I didn't realize the AF100 mount was so universal...

Are there any websites/blogs describing & showing with pictures/video the comparative crop factor of the AF100 to a 5D, 7D, film camera, etc? I don't fully understand what I'd be compromising on here, or if it's much of a big deal.

Lastly - what would you recommend for a full on AF100 kit? (lenses, rails, memory cards, etc.)? I want everything to be as universal as possible, so when I switch out of the AF100 in the future I can use my glass down the road with other cameras, or be able to swap lenses with friends (some friends have Canon 5D and lenses, it'd be nice to swap lenses with them as well).
Click to expand...

Universal is a tough one. It's only relative to what camera you want to own at the time. For me PL glass would better serve me because I do intend to move toward those cameras in the future, However, It seems that the future is also moving in a different direction. Take the Canon C300. It can use those great Canon L glass and control the aperture, or chose the PL version and use cinema lenses, or even better buy Canon's new PL cinema lenses. See what I mean?
The Red Scarlet did the same. Go over to Reduser and see how many people are selling off PL lenses to fund their new love for the Canon mount. Thats how I got my Red 17-40.
I think you might want to stop asking yourself questions about what I may need but, do I have the tools to do what I need now. The choices are mind boggling and only gets worse when you add a DSLR's into it. I think the people that use an AF-100 don't want to go backwards and use a tool that wasn't made primarily for digital cinema. Sure a 5D MKII or GH2 would be great as a second camera but not as a primary. We don't have to settle for the short comings those cameras have anymore. I'm not interested in a 4K 5D whatever if it's a still camera first, maybe a second cam but not my primary. Even then I really like on board audio control.
Now for me shallow depth of field in event coverage could be a pain. Hunting for focus has become such a distraction in many videos I see. I hate it. Low light and wide open isn't art when you cant focus your lens because your subject moved one inch, then it gets edited into the piece like hunting for focus is art. Grrrr. Again, I see it all the time. Wrong tool for the job. Thats why I recommend 2/3 and 1/3 chip cameras for event work.

Filmic. Depth of field isn't the only element in achieving the "LOOK". I shoot 30p with a HVX370 all the time for broadcast. It takes a lot of the video out of the look and is 29.97 so no conforming and quick to turn around. (I shoot daily promos at a local TV station.)
The AF-100 at $5K is the best value for the buck you can find. More feature rich than the Sony & Canon cams are as of today for the price. Again, FOR THE PRICE. Thats a big deal. Pick your adapter mount and buy the lenses that you think you will use and be happy. I am. I already spent way more on glass than I have on the AF-100. Heck the Red Pro Zoom 17-40 cost more. But I love that fricken lens!
Good luck. I hope I didn't make it more confusing for you.
 
5D/7D/GH2 are all great for achieving filmic look (personally I'm very happy with my GH2, especially hacked to 44mb), but if you want to add good audio and standard video features like ND, zebras, peaking etc then there's no substitute for the AF100 or FS100. DSLRS are good for getting great images, but make it harder to create great VTs in the way you and I are used to doing...
 
You might find that going from a proper video camera to a DSLR very limiting. There are some things that you take for granted on a video camera that just aren't there on a stills camera.

I personally couldn't use a DSLR. I do a lot of multi camera events where some of the operators use DSLRs and they are in awe of my AF100. "You mean it doesn't stop recording after 10 minutes?". Things like the Focus Assist and audio inputs alone make the difference. A decent battery and a 64GB SD card mean I can record for 3 hours without stopping.

The AF100 works out of the box with the stock Lumix zoom lens (all you need is an SD card) but you will probably start to want to add peripherals. If you look at the thread where people post pics of their rigs you'll find that most people have added a rail system with shoulder support, grips, matte box, follow focus, external monitors etc etc.

And then there is the world of the lens fetish. With the right adaptor (don't buy a cheap one) you can pretty much use any lens out there. They all have their own characteristics and can get very expensive. I have found the cheapest way to get up and running was the Nikon route (each of my lenses was about £100 second-hand from Ebay).
 
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