TikTok is now the most popular website

[NorBro]

Bassman, the bottom line is it's impossible for any videographer to ever make anywhere near the kind of money the entertainers are.

Or you could be a videographer who turns into an entertainer like Peter McKinnon & company.

You would be doing all of this work on any and all platforms only to help you grow and possibly gain more work or collabs, that's it. And the truth is you could spend years doing it and not even gain a single client.

This world doesn't work for everyone's business and personality.

If all else fails, try boxing.

 

[Bassman2003]

True dat.

 

[ahalpert]

That right there is key. I could see producing social media content for a client who already knows what they want and so all I have to do is turn it into reality. That is different from how I envision most social media content is produced.

Right, I'm certainly not an independent "creator." I don't know how most social media content is produced in terms of the aggregate statistics.

But basically I came into this field bringing a knowledge of Hollywood film language that I learned from watching movies (and going to school, although I don't need a degree to do what I do after all.) Hollywood film language has been extremely useful. But I think I need to stay up to date with the stuff our audiences are used to watching.

Plus, my clients have always valued my directorial and creative input even if I'm just the DP or editor. I want my work to succeed, and understanding how it will be viewed is integral to shooting and editing it successfully, both purely on a technical level as well as a style/content level.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Bassman, the bottom line is it's impossible for any videographer to ever make anywhere near the kind of money the entertainers are.

I wouldn't be so quick to make such a blanket statement. Yeah, in the short run some of those people are making pretty good money, but what about the long run? What happens over a period of a 20, 30, or 40 years? Flash in the pan. I doubt that 99% of those social media "stars" can sustain their level of income for even a decade. Someday soon E! will be hiring some of the freelancers on this board to shoot "where are they now" stories about the burnt out social media stars. And we will find out they will be selling real estate or shoes. Not too much different than many child actors, local TV personalities, disc jockeys, models, pro athletes, etc. who are hot unitl they are not. Make hay while the sun shines and sock all that $ away for when it ain't coming in any more, is my advice to them.

 

[DLD]

Or you could be a videographer who turns into an entertainer like Peter McKinnon & company.

You would be doing all of this work on any and all platforms only to help you grow and possibly gain more work or collabs, that's it. And the truth is you could spend years doing it and not even gain a single client.

This is something that has surprised me - surprised me a lot - over the years. Look at how the popular YouToobers have become star actors. The majority of them have probably never seriously dreamed of taking acting lessons. Yet, there they are, drawing hundreds of thousands of people to their clips and performing in front of cameras like true professionals. Because they have learned the craft of performing, at least, in their own niche.

As to the commercialization of TT/YT/FB, etc - there are two more common ways for non-celebrities, A typical successful content creator can use his popularity to get real paying jobs, with his free content serving as a resume. Two, one can use the popularity to sell all sort of product. Tony and Chelsea Northrup - whom I don't particularly like, as a pair or otherwise - make a lusty living by selling all sorts of e-books to their one and a half million subscribers. Matt Granger organizes the photo tours. The ex-Camera Store duo now have a paid gig at DP Review. And all of them get their B&H, Adorama, Amazon partnership accounts working. The commission is around 4%-5% from the retail for the most successful partners. That adds up.

 

[NorBro]

This is something that has surprised me - surprised me a lot - over the years. Look at how the popular YouToobers have become star actors. The majority of them have probably never seriously dreamed of taking acting lessons. Yet, there they are, drawing hundreds of thousands of people to their clips and performing in front of cameras like true professionals. Because they have learned the craft of performing, at least, in their own niche.

As to the commercialization of TT/YT/FB, etc - there are two more common ways for non-celebrities, A typical successful content creator can use his popularity to get real paying jobs, with his free content serving as a resume. Two, one can use the popularity to sell all sort of product. Tony and Chelsea Northrup - whom I don't particularly like, as a pair or otherwise - make a lusty living by selling all sorts of e-books to their one and a half million subscribers. Matt Granger organizes the photo tours. The ex-Camera Store duo now have a paid gig at DP Review. And all of them get their B&H, Adorama, Amazon partnership accounts working. The commission is around 4%-5% from the retail for the most successful partners. That adds up.

100%

 

[NorBro]

I wouldn't be so quick to make such a blanket statement. Yeah, in the short run some of those people are making pretty good money, but what about the long run? What happens over a period of a 20, 30, or 40 years? Flash in the pan. I doubt that 99% of those social media "stars" can sustain their level of income for even a decade. Someday soon E! will be hiring some of the freelancers on this board to shoot "where are they now" stories about the burnt out social media stars. And we will find out they will be selling real estate or shoes. Not too much different than many child actors, local TV personalities, disc jockeys, models, pro athletes, etc. who are hot unitl they are not. Make hay while the sun shines and sock all that $ away for when it ain't coming in any more, is my advice to them.

I don't know how to answer your question because I don't know how they manage their money or how their lives will turn out, but I can surely tell you this:

If I had a choice to work for 40 years for $100,000 per year and make 4 million dollars by the time I'm 60, or make 4 million dollars in one year at 17-18-19 years old, I'll let you guess which one I'd choose.

And if it's unclear, working for 40 years is in absolutely no plan for me, I could tell you that. Not even 30 years.

And I'm assuming some others might feel the same.

 

[Doug Jensen]

You're throwing out random numbers that were pulled from nowhere. Tell me who is making $4 million? How many of them? What are their names? Yes, some, but not very many. Hardly a great career move for everyone. And $100,000 is ridiculously low for production today, let alone over the long term.

BTW, how they spend their money has zero to with how they earn their money.

 

[NorBro]

$100K is a ridiculously low salary for a videographer?

Hey, if you ever write a book about that, I'll be your first buyer.

Listen...normally I jump on every opportunity I possibly can to help someone if I can help them, but I really can't teach you social media. It's just...it's too much.

If you genuinely want to learn, you're going to have to do the research yourself and find out what people make on different platforms and how they make their money.

 

[ahalpert]

where is the money?.

I'm sure there are needs and models I'm not considering. But I think that a social media presence is largely about advertising your business. (Yes, there are entertainers - "creators" - the Potato Jets of the world, etc, who are basically making a TV channel on youtube and selling their audience to advertisers.)

But if you're filming concerts and sports games, then I imagine that the videos from those come into play when trying to secure new audience and players -- customers. They come to the website or social media channel online and are greeted by a polished, comprehensive look at what's going on that only video can communicate.

For my auction house client, their video/photo channels help maintain an aura of activity and excitement. They also advertise specific works on sale and specific upcoming auctions. (And I know that they are contractually obligated to launch videos on social media for some of the works they sell, perhaps works that are estimated over a certain value.) I also have done a couple corporate internal videos for them and a number of pitch videos for "business getting" (ie convincing art owners to sell their works with us), and those videos obviously don't go out publicly anywhere.

 

[ahalpert]

This is something that has surprised me - surprised me a lot - over the years. Look at how the popular YouToobers have become star actors. The majority of them have probably never seriously dreamed of taking acting lessons. Yet, there they are, drawing hundreds of thousands of people to their clips and performing in front of cameras like true professionals. Because they have learned the craft of performing, at least, in their own niche.

Yes, they are actors. That is the true requirement of what they do. Knowledge of cinematography is secondary. But they're not just actors, they're storytellers. They're producer/directors.

I watched -- skimmed, really -- a video from Potato Jet recently about trying out the bare bones Mac Book M1 Pro model. I was shocked by how little useful information there was. But he deftly told a story about flying his drone out to gather footage, how it crashed in the snow and he was barely able to locate it. And then how they had a massive snowfall in southern California where he lives, which knocked out the power. (But the fully charged battery of the computer kept him busy anyway...) His girlfriend made an appearance.

The video flowed quite nicely. But it's gotta be noobs who watch this stuff and think they're learning something. He had a brief moment comparing the playback performance of the M1 Pro MBP to his previous Intel MBP using different codecs. That was virtually the only useful information in the video, which could have been boiled down to 2 paragraphs of written text.

thank god for newsshooter

 

[ahalpert]

$100K is a ridiculously low salary for a videographer?

Hey, if you ever write a book about that, I'll be your first buyer.

Listen...normally I jump on every opportunity I possibly can to help someone if I can help them, but I really can't teach you social media. It's just...it's too much.

If you genuinely want to learn, you're going to have to do the research yourself and find out what people make on different platforms and how they make their money.

it looks like there are at least 10 youtubers grossing $15 million or more per year. (Some of these channels have multiple stars.) Some of these names have been high on the earnings charts for a number of years already (such as Rhett and Link, I believe). Also, celebrity can have a very long tail to your earnings drop-off. If you're famous enough, it's totally plausible that you could still gross over $1 million/year when you're a has-been. That being said, I agree with Doug that these are the lottery-winners of the system. (Obviously, they work very hard and have mastered the craft, but the chances of a random person having such success is minute.)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/373772/youtubers-monetization-earnings-celebrity/

 

[Doug Jensen]

$100K is a ridiculously low salary for a videographer?
Hey, if you ever write a book about that, I'll be your first buyer..

It's called corporate video. I already teach a class up in Maine on the basics. Please sign up after Covid when classes resume.

It's not that hard to earn a great income and have normal work hours, excellent equipment, and creative freedom. There are literally thousand upon thousands of companies and government entities that need production and that will never go away. In fact it is bigger than ever. But you can't wait for them to call you. You have to have a little initiative and some business skills to make things happen. Running the camera is just part if it -- just as the task of recording a video on their phone is only part of the equation for a social media giant. Success is not about pushing buttons on gear.

Don't want to do corporate? Fine. I have plenty of friends who earn more than $100K in other areas of television production doing what it is they like best. Sports, for example, is very lucrative. I hear weddings is also a gold mine. Heck, I have one friend who makes over $80K just from stock footage alone. I make over $30K just from stock footage and that is just a hobby to me. If you have missed the boat on having a lucrative career, that is too bad because the money is out there. Network level freelancers can make over $1000/day + add-ons. Back when I was in New England I was working almost 200 days per year and had to add a second camera package to take up the slack by equipping other freelancers who didnt have gear, and then and I would take a cut.

I don't know if you ever listened to a late-night talk radio host named Bruce Williams who was big 30-40 years ago. Dead now. it was a GREAT show about business, entrepreneurism, investing, spending wisely, etc. that taught me a lot and really heledp make the hours pass by on long drives. Anyway, he used to say that if you stripped away his celebrity status and everything he owned, but gave him a pickup truck he'd be on his feet in a couple days and making a great income within a few weeks. That always stuck with me and I feel the same way about a camera. Strip away everything I have and give me a camera and computer for post and I would be making a living right away and on my way to a six figure income not too far down the road. In a way, that is exactly what the social media giants are doing, but I question if it is sustainable. And there can only be a relative few of them. Whereas with video/TV/film production, there can be tens of thousands fo success stories. because we will never run out of clients. It's not celebrity based success - -it is results driven success -- which is sustainable year in and year out.

 

[NorBro]

it looks like there are at least 10 youtubers grossing $15 million or more per year. (Some of these channels have multiple stars.) Some of these names have been high on the earnings charts for a number of years already (such as Rhett and Link, I believe). Also, celebrity can have a very long tail to your earnings drop-off. If you're famous enough, it's totally plausible that you could still gross over $1 million/year when you're a has-been. That being said, I agree with Doug that these are the lottery-winners of the system. (Obviously, they work very hard and have mastered the craft, but the chances of a random person having such success is minute.)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ngs-celebrity/

And what about the ones between $1 million and $14 million?

It's called corporate video. I already teach a class up in Maine on the basics. Please sign up after Covid when classes resume.

It's not that hard to earn a great income and have normal work hours, excellent equipment, and creative freedom. There are literally thousand upon thousands of companies and government entities that need production and that will never go away. In fact it is bigger than ever. But you can't wait for them to call you. You have to have a little initiative and some business skills to make things happen. Running the camera is just part if it -- just as the task of recording a video on their phone is only part of the equation for a social media giant. Success is not about pushing buttons on gear.

Don't want to do corporate? Fine. I have plenty of friends who earn more than $100K in other areas of television production doing what it is they like best. Sports, for example, is very lucrative. I hear weddings is also a gold mine. Heck, I have one friend who makes over $80K just from stock footage alone. I make over $30K just from stock footage and that is just a hobby to me. If you have missed the boat on having a lucrative career, that is too bad because the money is out there. Network level freelancers can make over $1000/day + add-ons. Back when I was in New England I was working almost 200 days per year and had to add a second camera package to take up the slack by equipping other freelancers who didnt have gear, and then and I would take a cut.

I don't know if you ever listened to a late-night talk radio host named Bruce Williams who was big 30-40 years ago. Dead now. it was a GREAT show about business, entrepreneurism, investing, spending wisely, etc. that taught me a lot and really heledp make the hours pass by on long drives. Anyway, he used to say that if you stripped away his celebrity status and everything he owned, but gave him a pickup truck he'd be on his feet in a couple days and making a great income within a few weeks. That always stuck with me and I feel the same way about a camera. Strip away everything I have and give me a camera and computer for post and I would be making a living right away and on my way to a six figure income not too far down the road. In a way, that is exactly what the social media giants are doing, but I question if it is sustainable. And there can only be a relative few of them. Whereas with video/TV/film production, there can be tens of thousands fo success stories. because we will never run out of clients. It's not celebrity based success - -it is results driven success -- which is sustainable year in and year out.

That's a cool quote at the end there.

 

[ahalpert]

And what about the ones between $1 million and $14 million?

No idea. If you locate the statistics, let us know

 

[NorBro]

:bath:

 

[ahalpert]

No idea what that charming bath animation is supposed to mean. But the earnings of youtubers are not necessarily an evenly distributed bell curve. There could be a handful at the top and a vast number at the bottom and nobody in-between. That's the nature of a winner-take-all system such as celebrity

 

[NorBro]

No idea what that charming bath animation is supposed to mean. But the earnings of youtubers are not necessarily an evenly distributed bell curve. There could be a handful at the top and a vast number at the bottom and nobody in-between. That's the nature of a winner-take-all system such as celebrity

That's also called life, in general.

 

[ahalpert]

That's also called life, in general.

That's what our feudal overlords want you to believe. The naturalization of feudalism

 

[NorBro]

Actually, this turned into an interesting conversation...

Just for fun, I checked out CareerBuilder's calculator (what do they know? IDK, maybe something), and here are their results for NY, NY.

Maybe it would be cool to get an anonymous poll going on DVXuser to see how many members agree or disagree with this. (I tried a few other states and the changes aren't too drastic.)

https://www.careerbuilder.com/salary...in-new-york,ny