FS7: This is becoming insane...

Amadou

Amadou

Carbonite Member
I'm about to start a movie with a sony camera going from a 416 microphone to the XLR inputs to the FS7/FS5. I just spoke to a nice woman at B&H who told me that using the camera pre-amps with XLR inputs was not a good idea. She recomended going through a Sound Devices Preamp first and going from there into the camera with line in to bypass the camera preamps and get better sound. Obviously this opens up a new can of worms. Has anybody tried this and was the sound really better? Thank you.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...evices_MM_1_MM_1_Single_Channel_Portable.html

By the way, I am perfectly aware that having a Professional sound mixer with his own Nagra is the best choice.

Bythe way, how are the FS7 pre-amps as compared to the FS5... and should we be afraid....
 
Sound Devices has excellent preamps and an excellent analog limiter. That said, my Sony FS700 had and C300 II has decent preamps and never felt like the audio was lacking for dialog. However, few times (perhaps 3?) that the digital limiters got touched, the audio sounded distorted but was still usable. If it was for a feature I would have ADR’d those takes. Not a big deal though ADR is more time, work, and money.

If you’re going to spend money on SD gear get at least the MixPre 3, and record with it at the same time as feeding the camera. Then you’ll have the option in post to use separate audio.

For no or low budget productions, this is fine, however if you can afford a skilled sound guy to monitor levels etc. the production will be easier, especially if you’ve got more than two channels.

You don’t need a Nagra lol, SD is plenty good :) https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rem...g/497635-nagra-lb-vs-sound-devices-702-a.html
 
If no sound guy, you can mount the MixPre 3/6 under the camera and send output into the camera (that’s what they’re designed to do).

If you have a sound guy, you’ll still need a line in from their gear (wired or wireless), or a mic on camera to capture scratch audio for syncing in post. More complex setups will use timecode.
 
Its all relative just like everything else in the business. Should we all be using Alexas? Sure, but other ways often are fine for our needs. What the nice lady at B&H as using is the old 'best industry practice' to sell some more gear. Yes, they can say they are trying to help you (which they are) but at the same time, $7,000 camera preamps are usually quite decent.

Amazing sound and imagery is limitless where budgets are not. No doubt SD gear is great but can you make a great project without one? Yep.
 
The mixpre-3 is an amazing little device. However I'm sure I would love for it to weigh down the fs7 even more.
The AA sled has terrible up time. But I wonder if you could power the mix with d-tap to usb-c from a battery like the Swit S-8U93.

For corporate the internal amps and added post work has been fine so far.
 
Making a film is very complex process and by your questions it doesn't seem like you grasp even the basics of the technology. Instead of buying all this crap why not hire someone who knows more about it, or get a much cheaper camera and learn on the job. This sounds like a mess in the making.
 
I've remained a voyeur to your many posts so far but this one has just gone too far.

I'm not a sound engineer but I find that advice pretty suspicious. I shoot interviews all the time with my mic going straight into the camera and its perfectly fine. The main issue I would imagine is shooting a feature with a sound person. Budget or not that sounds nuts to me.

First of all who's monitoring the audio and setting levels - the Camera Op? They won't have the mental bandwidth.

A 416 just won't cut it for catching adequate audio in many many many situations and this issue dwarfs your continued worries about 4-2-0 vs 4-2-2 or FS7 vs FS5 or 4K vs HD. You're better off shooting with a DSLR or certainly an older C300 or an F3 and using the extra dough for an audio person and a few wirelesses. You don't need a guy with a nagra, and you really could even get by without a separate recorder, but for gods sake get yourself a guy or gal with a mixer.
 
One you set the audio level of each scene on the camera (and monitor with headphones) you don't need to have your eyes on the levels during the take. You can even record on a second channel at lower volume as a backup. So the operator can perfectly monitor audio while monitoring the image. I don't see the problem.

And by the way, when you say the pre-amps on an 8000 dollar camera can't be that bad, does that mean the lesser cameras such as the FS5 have lesser quality preamps than the FS7?
 
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I say " go for it" ! there is no need for a sound guy or a need to watch levels if you think the audio is such a small part of what you are doing. I say half the shoot is audio, but then I can cut a shot to broll but I can't fix messed up dialog..... so maybe more than half is audio:)
 
I understand that. However I dont understand why the camera operator cant set the levels while reseasing the scene and let the boom operator share the monitoring experience with a second headphone using a mini jack splitter out of the camera. Too much cable?
 
What is becoming insane is your incessant posting.

Maybe you should stop posting on the internet and actually go shoot something.

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Freaking hell.
 

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When shooting interviews, I boom a 416 into my mix Pre-D which is mounted on the side of my FS7. Mix Pre-D offers a clean gain stage and awesome limiters. That being said, you can get away without it if you have good mic positioning and monitor your levels properly but it's not ideal. The pots on the FS7 are not great to work with. You have to know what your doing with a mixer though. There are lots of ways you can mess up the audio chain.
 
Talk to a sound recordist who understands that actors may change their levels considerably after rehearsal or from take to take, particularly in any kind of confrontational scene. The first thing I noticed with a Sound Devices mixer attached was how good the limiters were and how effective it was at keeping those unexpected loud moments from overmodulating and distorting. But do your own test - or even try adjusting the audio levels on the camera while you're trying to simultaneously follow some complex action. Or of course you could just set the camera audio to 'Auto' and fix or ADR it in post.
Or maybe ask a good recordist why sometimes multiple mics, each going to its own audio track, will give you much more control over your audio if you have multiple actors at varying distances, and of course everyone speaking at different volume levels.
 
Amadou said:
I'm about to start a movie with a sony camera going from a 416 microphone to the XLR inputs to the FS7/FS5. I just spoke to a nice woman at B&H who told me that using the camera pre-amps with XLR inputs was not a good idea. She recomended going through a Sound Devices Preamp first and going from there into the camera with line in to bypass the camera preamps and get better sound. Obviously this opens up a new can of worms. Has anybody tried this and was the sound really better? Thank you.
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Ignore their advice, you should be going dual system not single system sound.

Single system sound was more common in the ultra low budget world of filmmaking many many many many moons ago, but no one in their right mind should do this for a narrative feature film shot in 2018. As quality multi track portable recorders today are nowhere near as expensive as they were back then.

Amadou said:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...evices_MM_1_MM_1_Single_Channel_Portable.html
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I own a MM1, it is a very handy tool for me, but a bad one for you to consider, you have no need for it. You should get a Zoom F4 or the new Zoom F8n which is just mere days/weeks away from being released.

Amadou said:
By the way, I am perfectly aware that having a Professional sound mixer with his own Nagra is the best choice.
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Nagra? Does this come with its own dinosaur to operate it?
You're showing your age here as to how extremely out of touch you are.... next to no one sees a Nagra on sets these days.

Amadou said:
Bythe way, how are the FS7 pre-amps as compared to the FS5... and should we be afraid....
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Doesn't matter, you shouldn't be using the camera audio. So they're good enough for scratch audio, and that is all that matters.

Cary Knoop said:
You can't beat Sound Devices!
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If you're in the sub $3K category (which I'd be inclined to believe the OP is, good luck at convincing him to spend more than $3K just on a recorder!) then you can indeed beat Sound Devices.

As Zoom has stolen a march on Sound Devices that they haven't been able to match (yes, I know about the MixPre3/6/10T. But at each price point I'd rather go with Zoom's F4/F8/F8n instead for a narrative feature film).
 
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