They want to use my camera...do I get a percentage?

J

JPUSC

Active member
Hey all...this is something I've come across a few times, but always wondered what was proper.

I've been asked to be assistant director on a TV pilot and they also need my camera and equipment. Is it proper to ask for a percentage on potential profits from the project or charge a rental fee? What do you guys usually do?

Thanks so much!
 
You could talk with them about it, but usually on those kinds of gigs, in my experience, they offer you an amount and expect the camera to come with you. If you weren't bringing your camera you wouldn't get paid as much, so essentially the rental fee is included in your pay. However, if you feel you're being slighted, talk with them and explain that you feel you need more for the use of your gear.

What it comes down to is, take as much as you think you (and your gear) is worth for the project. If they're paying you enough, then go with it. If they're not, tell them you need more or don't take the job. Don't try and get a few extra bucks just because you think you can... decide if you really feel it's fair and necessary.
 
The vast majority of pilots never go any further. I'd forget percentages and concentrate on getting a fair fee for your work on the pilot.
 
Does not sound like a very good gig.... You get to be the assistant director and the camera rental company but don't get paid.
 
Time and energy can be flexible if there is potential it will lead to something bigger. But, your gear... You paid for. If they didn't have you and your gear, what would they do? They would have to RENT it... so it makes sense that you do the same.
 
daihard said:
Time and energy can be flexible if there is potential it will lead to something bigger. But, your gear... You paid for. If they didn't have you and your gear, what would they do? They would have to RENT it... so it makes sense that you do the same.
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well said, i agree.
 
daihard said:
Time and energy can be flexible if there is potential it will lead to something bigger. But, your gear... You paid for. If they didn't have you and your gear, what would they do? They would have to RENT it... so it makes sense that you do the same.
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Nail on the head.
 
So you supply the gear for their Dp? Why does the Dp not have a cam of his or her own? And is assistant director a title they threw you as a way to use you for the tools needed to make their pilot. Will you actually have a say as to what goes on? I guess I'm always a skeptic when it comes to deals like this. People in this industry can be very decieptful when trying to get their film made. Don't get me wrong, there are some great honest people with integrity out there. But just as many users. Just be very careful how you aproach this, and get everything in writing. Don't want to see you get burned.

Also if you have a job come up, a good paying job, and it's on the same days as they need your cam. It could get a bit sticky if you know what I'm saying.
 
JPUSC said:
They said it would be pro-bono for now.
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Yeah, that's what I figured. So what I said still applies... they're probably including you in large part because you're bringing the equipment, which they're expecting for free. Charge money, and they might go find someone else who has the equipment. So do you want the job, for no pay, to get the experience (or do you like your friend enough to do it as a favor)? Or do you not need the experience enough to let your equipment go without a fee?
It all comes back to... are you getting paid enough to feel like you've been adequately compensated or not?
 
In my experience, people do pro bono work for a few reasons: a) to learn their trade, b) to make contacts or c) because of the artistic merit of the project. I mean we all would love to be paid on every job, but you have to start somewhere. My advice is that if you lack experience (e.g under 3 years) put your hand up for everything (creative) and volunteer your gear. If you prove yourself to be keen and talented, the time will come when you will start getting paid. But don't try to rush it!

Instead of going to film school, I bought gear. I had no experience and no contacts. I got 'used' by lots of people for about 5 years on creative projects, but all the while I gained experience and contacts. Eventually, I started working with some pretty high profile people and could make a modest living out of my work...

Remember: The same guys making tv pilots are making corporate videos etc... and they're going to remember you as the guy with the gear. You can let them know that you are for hire (for a very reasonable rate ;-) ) on corporate jobs etc...
 
Soldier said:
In my experience, people do pro bono work for a few reasons: a) to learn their trade, b) to make contacts or c) because of the artistic merit of the project. I mean we all would love to be paid on every job, but you have to start somewhere. My advice is that if you lack experience (e.g under 3 years) put your hand up for everything (creative) and volunteer your gear. If you prove yourself to be keen and talented, the time will come when you will start getting paid. But don't try to rush it!

Instead of going to film school, I bought gear. I had no experience and no contacts. I got 'used' by lots of people for about 5 years on creative projects, but all the while I gained experience and contacts. Eventually, I started working with some pretty high profile people and could make a modest living out of my work...

Remember: The same guys making tv pilots are making corporate videos etc... and they're going to remember you as the guy with the gear. You can let them know that you are for hire (for a very reasonable rate ;-) ) on corporate jobs etc...
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In my experience, and thankfully i have done only a handful of free gigs - NOTHING ever comes from those. The free gigs are mostly "produced" by people with limited business experience who hardly ever make it.

To OP, it really doesn't take that much money to produce one day of free-labor shoot - probably a few hundred $ at most - if this production is unwilling to even spend the few $ do you really think there is enough passion behind it to be part of it?
 
If it were a small budget project, and they were paying me to be either director or cinematographer
I might consider letting the equipment be included in that fee--depending on the rate of pay & how much potential I
thought the project had (First, I would try to negotiate some additional fee for the equipment). But if it were the
situation you are talking about, I would offer the equipment to them for a fee, not for free.
 
You've got to remind yourself of your creative goals and stay focused on acheiving them. What I mean, is do you want to be an AD or AC or a Director? Is this the kind of film you'd be working on if you were calling the shots and it was your project? Don't waste your time.

Right now, you've got the advantage, owning the gear. I don't see much point in trying to get money out of these, respecfully, jokers so... See if you can get the DP position in return for the use of your equipment. Tell them simply, the camera is yours. Are they insured? Can they cover the cost of repairs if another operator mishandles YOUR camera? No? Tell them your more comfortable operating your own equipment and that's the way you work. You can always part ways.

See who's bluffing? This was how I played the game and I've been able to shoot, as DP, 10 shorts in the last two years. I've learned so much, but I've worked hard to get up to speed and learn low-budget filmmaking. I'm working on a feature as DP this year as a result of the reputation I was able to build trading equipment usage for a position those two years. I've also turned down jobs in television and commercials. Some producer's expectations are ridiculous.

I want a career as a DP though. That's why I did it. I love expressing myself photographically or cinematically. You'll find your path but I WOULD NOT lend out your camera to get a job unless the job meets your needs too. Aim high.
 
I want to talk about the jokers in the previous post.

I've been there. I'm probably still there now. I say it because the level it sounds like they're operating out of is inexperience and it's a joke.

I work as a Producer too. I just want the people working with me to be happy. You've got to be brave and draw the line sometimes and this may be a great opportunity for you and they might be a great bunch of guys and gals to work with, so you've got to weigh all that in too. It's tough starting out, finding help from professional, finding work that you want on your IMDb page. You've got a camera. Use it to YOUR advantage. I tell you, I'd have a lot more respect for someone who stands up for himself and asks for more than someone who let's me, unknowingly, to walk all over them. I defriended an actor on facebook yesterday because he tried emotionally blackmailing me. I can't work with him. Good luck.
 
Titles are so frequently used instead of money.

Two points. Is anyone getting paid? If any of them are, then asking you to do it for free means they have no budget for essentials - so their credentials are flawed to start with. What they're after is your gear, for free. I hate people getting ripped off.

The only way doing it is worthwhile is if you want to do it so badly that money doesn't mater. Then it's a fun thing, not a proper job, but personally, I think they're to55ers! (and I bet they are getting paid, no matter what they say. Look at the way they are promoting it. So we have DP, Director, AD - and it just makes me wonder if their idea of AD is a runner, DP is simply bloke who knows how to point a camera, and the Director knows little of directing. TV Pilot? I bet it never makes it past editing!
 
This may be slightly tangental to the topic at hand, but I always question a little bit the usefulness of working on just ANY random no-budget project for experience and to learn the industry. Because the question is, just WHAT are you learning? What I mean is, let's say you bought a cam, and have been working on shorts using home Depot construction lights and a painters pole with a boom mic taped to it. Now you get hired for your first paid music video job. A proper crew of grips, etc. So you go, "alright boys, let's bring out the Home Depot lights! Wait? What? You don't use those? What's a kino? What's a 1K?" etc. Maybe this scenario isn't very likely in the real world, and maybe you'd muddle through, but it seems like at some point you have to get integrated into the REAL industry and learn real methods and to use proper gear. I've always heard if one is going to do freebies, one should hitch their wagon to a legit (albeit obviously low-budget) production, something with real crew members who work in the industry regularly. This way you get exposed to the actual gear people use, to actual methods of doing this, etc. These projects do exist. Something where they have enough to pay a few core people but PAs, interns, etc. are volunteer labor.
 
Probably for the best. Ive been offered numerous jobs, where once Ive heard what they want to do Ive asked the terms of payment and they've said Oh its deferred and I always respond with, "you mean no pay?". Ive turned more down than I can count. Theres is however a project Im doing a little promo on pro bono - but this guys done 2 years research, has letters that say they will fund once they see a concept trailer - has the support of a huge local organisation with thousand and thousands of members the content appeals to straight up. But there's a contract to say the project will only proceed if funded and when that phase has completed I will be the cinematographer and my pay rate will be X per month for the project duration. That and I believe its a great project.

I hate when people look at you as if to say "Oh you call yourself an artist?" because you wont do freebies because they believe their project is the be all and end all. Well thats not the point really - Im afraid my bank doesnt accept mortgage payments in terms of "Its ok, we'll waiver your payments on your house for the sake of art....." Always see that look from less experienced people.
 
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