The way to write a good independent Feature is?
- Thread starter Michael Anthony Horrigan
- Start date
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Well, first of all, I didn't actually say that, so putting it in quotes is a bit misleading...
But I do think they're both examples of excellent sub-micro-budget features. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, as all films do. I thoroughly enjoyed watching each of them more than once, and would recommend them very highly to anyone. That puts them in a very elite group of micro-indies in my book...
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Everyone's entitled to their preferences : )
Can you give some examples of films with truly "bad" stories that were made "awesome" in your estimation by superb acting/performances?
I honestly can't think of any. For me, really serious story problems are a complete deal breaker...
roei z
Veteran
i will watch "the following" soon, and haven't had a chance to get "deuce" (in Israel), but i DO think that the trailer itself was a real downer for me. if it wasn't for the topic discussed here i would have never thought of watching it.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
I don't remember much of what was in the trailer...not sure if I even saw the latest one. What about it bothered you?
Definitely watch FOllowing. I've been meaning to watch it for a few months and finally got around to it on Netflix because of this thread.
70 minute movie, has every bit of salt that makes a good picture. Story isn't mind blowing, but the execution is pretty spot on. Never once had to forgive it for being low budget. Never even crossed my mind during the watch.
I personally think it's a disservice to a movie to allow budget to inform an opinion. It means the same movie, same execution, would be a bad movie if it cost several millions??? Doesn't compute to me, but again, different strokes.
The Trailer and footage for Deuce of Spades, it looked visually competent for the most part but there was something in the dialog and overall tone that seemed off? That was it for me, anyway, and what's been keeping me from actually buying a copy with what limited cash I do have.
I know you were asking Roei, but awesome is a stretch. I can name some mediocre material that was made good or better by excellent filmmakers.
Heck, INCEPTION is on the verge of "seriously?" But made pretty awesome by the Nolan camp.
The amounts of exposition, some of the useless details, and even some of the dialog were first film school project. Yet, because of the filmmakers I honestly wasn't bothered by any of it.
Of course, if don't think INCEPTION is a good movie to begin with then that won't be an example you accept.
Chris_Keaton
ScriptFEST Mod
Story is king. There has been no good films made out of bad scripts, but there have been plenty of bad films made from good scripts.
If you start with a turd the best you can end up hoping for is a polished turd. But as you can see it's still a turd.
If you start with a turd the best you can end up hoping for is a polished turd. But as you can see it's still a turd.
I think someone said that on page one already.
Anyway, if your statement is actually fact (which it isn't, since this is a subjective medium) and a good script doesn't make itself, then story isn't king in that equation, execution is. Without proper execution a good script is a bad movie, and we aren't watching scripts, we're watching movies.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
I think one thing (among many others) that has to be taken in consideration in a micro-budget film is actors/acting quality. If you don't have the money to hire highly skilled professionals, you almost certainly won't have the greatest performances on-screen. This affects both "El Mariachi" and "Deuce Of Spades" to varying degrees IMO, but is completely forgivable due to their budget restrictions. Naturally, after RR had his initial success and could afford bankable actors, he hired them.
I'd love to hire Cathy Bates for a major role in my upcoming short film, but unless she decides to do it for (virtually) free, which of course, does happen on occasion, I can't. I will have to do the best I can with who I can afford to pay...and that will likely mean a sub-Cathy Bates result on screen. For which I will forgive myself (and the actress). I would hope that others would likely understand as well...
There's a reason why really good actors cost a lot of money...
To me it's just common sense, and it probably affects 99.9999% of all micro-indies. Nothing to be ashamed of in my book...
I'd love to hire Cathy Bates for a major role in my upcoming short film, but unless she decides to do it for (virtually) free, which of course, does happen on occasion, I can't. I will have to do the best I can with who I can afford to pay...and that will likely mean a sub-Cathy Bates result on screen. For which I will forgive myself (and the actress). I would hope that others would likely understand as well...
There's a reason why really good actors cost a lot of money...
To me it's just common sense, and it probably affects 99.9999% of all micro-indies. Nothing to be ashamed of in my book...
Chris_Keaton
ScriptFEST Mod
I disagree with this line and not just because I never enter contests. I think all a win proves is that on that day they satisfied some readers, but does the story satisfy you? I imagine if a win guaranteed a great story all of these winners would get produced, but few ever do. There are a lot of factors that need to be taken into account to make a great movie, all these contests do is say this script had a lot of pretty words. Unfortunately the audience will never read the script, so what those words can and do turn into visually is more important. This means budget, originality, etc. etc. etc., so I think you are back to the question, "does this story grab at you?"
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Good ingredients can make a rotten meal, but not vice-versa...
: )
: )
Chris_Keaton
ScriptFEST Mod
Yes, but what I'm saying is that you will have a snow balls chance in hell of doing anything good with a crap script. Great direction and production value can produce 'Suckerpunch', but the story/script is what let the production down.
Chris_Keaton
ScriptFEST Mod
Adversely, you kind of just agreed that the script isn't the most important thing.
Gonna have to use FOLLOWING again... did you have to forgive it for anything low budget oriented, personally? I didn't.
There are excellent actors available that want to just work on decent material. You're an actor, you know that. It's a filmmakers choice to spend time casting or just grab the first thing that comes along.
By the way, Ted, I know you're saying it's your personal preference to add a pinch of forgiveness for that. So, again, we're talking past each other more than likely. lol
If only that were true, but even if I took your statement literally: There are cultures that actually consume rotten food (especially meat) at the right stage for better absorption of nutrients.
Whether one can stomach that taste or not is a different story.
I guess the parallel to said info is TRANSFROMERS movies. =]
Given that of course the best and most boring answer is a bit of both, and one doesn't win the other, but these days for some reason I think of seinfeld episodes. The stories are so (well there was a time I thought they were brilliant they still are) but seeing them with anyone else playing the characters coudl kill it. I'm sure one could give a troupe of actors something not so special and have them do wonders with it... is my point I guess.
But no no no no no... problematic story is problematic story. Can't think of a bad story where acting did well enough to save it, but there's banal stories that are made something else by a performance I guess.
Yeah ok, story is king
But performance may be 'it' as far as distinguishing between something that does the job and something spectacular. More so I think than picture or tech. It's always been story vs. acting for me. One's gotta lead like a dance maybe? It does take two to tango.
By the way I've been following your chat with kholi all day. just got back from... erm... shooting believe it or not. You guys talk good its fun to read.
Yeah ok, story is king
It's always been story vs. acting for me. One's gotta lead like a dance maybe? It does take two to tango.
By the way I've been following your chat with kholi all day. just got back from... erm... shooting believe it or not. You guys talk good its fun to read.
Haha. Ted Spencer and I are peaceful, just something to pass the time! And, it's not gear related!
I think story is of course heaps upon mounds of important. It's pretty obvious that if you set out to make a bad story then your chances of making a good movie are much slimmer. I think I'm only just now realizing that it's almost more important, as you sort of hint on about the acting, to know how to execute. No matter how good a script is, the majority of an audience will not forgive poor execution (audio, acting, cinematography--probably in that order, too) if they're paying money to watch your material.
YouTube is a free-to-view site for the most part, so there's a LOT of forgiveness there. Start asking someone to pay for any of that and we'll see how much story is king holds up.
roei z
Veteran
about "Deuce" trailer:
from what i remember when seeing it a week ago (for me, a good trailer SHOULD DEFINITELY be an original, excellent "invitation"):
visual look: too videoish for this kind of story.
the trailer story itself: not intriguing for me - an "all american" regular 50's rebel set-up..
bits of scenes: again, a "i've seen it all before" feeling.
that's more than enough for me. even just for investigating micro-budget success, i just cannot find any motivation for watching it.
on the other hand, i'm just about to watch "following" right now
even if it's just because of Nolan's reputation ( i personally liked "the Prestiege" the most).
i might hate it in the end. who knows.
BTW- this thread is very interesting for me at the moment, since i THINK i have a very special story concept,
already written as a full feature screenplay, and i am in the middle of actually directing/shooting it these days... (started shooting Saturday)