The way to write a good independent Feature is?

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Anybody know?

I've been having some discussions with a few people and we are at odds about a few things.
Some say to just write whatever comes to mind. That it doesn't pay to restrict your creativity. Worry about all that later.

I'm of a different thought. I'm trying to work within my means, right from the onset.

For example, I know that my first feature won't be heavy in SFX or set in space. I just don't have the ability to pull something like that off right now. So I'm trying to be as creative as I can while working with what I've got. I see far too many people shoot for the stars their first time out and fall flat on their collective faces.

Not looking for a 'who's right or who's wrong' kind of answer. Might just be nice to hear some more opinions on the subject.

Also, can a mainstream independent thriller make it these days? I mean, the big studios can do just about everything we can. Shouldn't we be aiming outside of the box? Attacking issues that they won't touch or going out on a limb so to speak. Or is it coming up with that elusive idea that's never been done before, or at least not quite like the way you intend to do it since almost everything has been done in one way or another.

I would love some feedback.

 

[Alex H.]

Write the story first, tell the story later.

Not having the budget or means to pull off SFX-heavy production shouldn't limit your basic writing. Once you have the story outlined, you can start shaping it to fit what you can do... or if you have an idea that, off the bat, seems a little too lofty, simply rework that element to be told within simpler means. For example: if you're working on a thriller and you have a chase scene, you can:

- use lots of cuts, jarring angles, and desperate POV for a foot chase in which the character disappears into a crowd; or
- have the character plunge from a 50-story building onto the roof of a 30-story building, unharmed, and run away.

One of those is going to cost boat-loads of money to produce, either through stunt rigging, or through CGI, or a combination of the two. The other option is easy to produce on a dime, and the illusion is sealed in editing. Is the expensive one really all that necessary to effectively tell the story?

Honestly, I think this is why so much of what "Hollywood" puts out these days is so devoid of satisfying plots and in-depth story development. There are films that forsake that simply to blow things up and add a few million dollars worth of CGI (see: anything by Michael Bay). If you write for SFX, you'll have no story without them. If you write for story, you can certainly plug SFX in where needed/warranted/attainable, but you aren't going to be dependent on them.

Even the smallest projects can suffer from this, too. I served as a "consultant" (read: unpaid advisor, favor for a friend) to a group of students who were assigned a short film for one of their classes at a community college. The student who asked me to help is some one I've known for a long time, and I was happy to go through the script with them and give them some technical pointers (camera angles 101, getting decent sound with the gear they had, and some basic rigging for some of the specialized shots that could have required SFX/CGI but didn't need it). So they go off to shoot... and the project falls apart and classmates are mad at each other and words are flying around. The big argument/blowup was over a stunt that a couple of the team members decided they absolutely had to have: they wanted a guy to be thrown through a coffee table. When asked why, the reply was simply, "'Cause it looks cool." The script didn't call for it. It wasn't necessary. It didn't help the story. But, apparently, it looks cool. It would have been much cooler in slow motion with a drawn out "Nooooooooo!" Am I right?

Just my humble opinion.

 

[marclip]

Write what you know and write what is in your heart.
Don't try and figure out what someone else wants. By the time you're finished, they'll want something else.

 

[Saharanturtle]

Like you said, something simple without a lot of special effects. Because we don't have millions of dollars for our films, our scripts are what will set us apart from those who have access to millions yet still make garbage

Also, don't worry about a great idea. It's not the idea, its the execution. Just about every idea has been used in some way or another, you just have to be creative and put your spin on whatever this idea is

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Thanks, guys. I'm definitely writing for me. Just the me at this stage in my life. The one that knows it's best to work with the tools that I have at my disposal, presently.

I have to say this, if I was writing a no holds barred screenplay that a big studio was backing my screenplay would be very different. There would be no limits. As is, I can't write about an astronaut crew landing on another world because there is no way that I could pull that off.

That's kind of what I'm talking about. Writing within your limits.

 

[Batutta]

Make sure to have a lesbian sex scene.

 

[Saharanturtle]

Thanks, guys. I'm definitely writing for me. Just the me at this stage in my life. The one that knows it's best to work with the tools that I have at my disposal, presently.

I have to say this, if I was writing a no holds barred screenplay that a big studio was backing my screenplay would be very different. There would be no limits. As is, I can't write about an astronaut crew landing on another world because there is no way that I could pull that off.

That's kind of what I'm talking about. Writing within your limits.

For a feature I don't know if that advise is right or wrong, but for short films its definitely right to see what you have available and use it to make something cool

That's what I'm doing now, my first short "film" is going to center around a cool park bench near my house and a nun or clown Halloween costume I have

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

For a feature I don't know if that advise is right or wrong, but for short films its definitely right to see what you have available and use it to make something cool.

I think it remains the same. Unless you're writing the feature for someone else to make.
Why write something that you yourself don't have a prayer of completing successfully?

Again, I'm talking about writing an independent feature for yourself.

 

[Alex H.]

As is, I can't write about an astronaut crew landing on another world because there is no way that I could pull that off.

Don't focus on where you can't put the story. Focus on where you can put it. That may sound cheesy, but you keep pointing to what you cannot do. That, right there, is going to be your biggest stumbling block.

 

[tmnt]

Just make sure your story is worth writing. I think that's the single best bit of advice any writer can have.

The first script I wrote was a romcom and it was very by the numbers. If I was to re-write it I would have made sure it had a great concept first, a good hook.

I think you'd be good with a pyschological kind of thriller. Just make sure you have someone good to bounce the drafts off.

EDIT: Just watched the remake of I spit on Your Grave the other day. Was quiet good and had only maybe 3 locations then the woods, still never got boring. Always think a log cabin/woods is a nice setting.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

Hi Michael, Great thread

I strongly advise against the just write whatever comes out unless your
A) A genius or at least VERY experienced and skilled
or B) A massive fan of rewrites...

Also possibly if you were writing your own biographic journey or adapting an existing work I guess...

But the idea, which I know some people put forward, that drawing yourself up a general outline demands any less of a creative process than just sitting down and beginning the script is simply absurd... And the idea that doing so limits or corrupts your creativity is even more absurd!

Treatments, outlines and index/scene cards are very useful tools that allow you to grasp and develop a good overall sense of your story that can be incredibly hard to see otherwise and is very useful to have. Sure you may pull it off, it's possible, but it's a process that lends it self to a serious rewrite being needed even before you've finished... and sometimes, the nature of the rewrite is so serious that you may as well be writing a completely different script.

I have found that to create something good, you have to throw so much of what you come up with away, writing in essence is pretty akin to sculpting in my opinion... If everything you first come up with lands on the page, in my experience it makes for poor and many drafts.

It's not that it's impossible, and your friends may even have that kind of genius... but I prefer to shift the odds in my favour and create a process which is as conducive as possible to allowing you to make mistakes and throw things out when they cost you the least amount of time, effort and grief. You'll do a heap of it anyway, so getting a good chunk done at the conception stage is a no brainer to me.

I personally like to work my story concept through with others first, I like being forced to fight for my ideas, have their worth challenged, helps show where I may need to expand and strengthen them, or abandon them and consider others... and when they survive, I usually have a very good idea why it's still there and it's value... this alos makes it easier to know why I may wnat to change something later and what it's ramifications may be... Then I write the script myself.

My two cents.

Best Wishes

Lliam

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Don't focus on where you can't put the story. Focus on where you can put it. That may sound cheesy, but you keep pointing to what you cannot do. That, right there, is going to be your biggest stumbling block.

That's exactly what I'm going to do. The question was posed because I had other people telling me that I shouldn't focus on where I can put the story as that means I'm restricting myself creatively. That's why I was pointing it out so much.

For what it's worth, I agree with you 100%.

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Just make sure your story is worth writing. I think that's the single best bit of advice any writer can have.

The first script I wrote was a romcom and it was very by the numbers. If I was to re-write it I would have made sure it had a great concept first, a good hook.

I think you'd be good with a pyschological kind of thriller. Just make sure you have someone good to bounce the drafts off.

EDIT: Just watched the remake of I spit on Your Grave the other day. Was quiet good and had only maybe 3 locations then the woods, still never got boring. Always think a log cabin/woods is a nice setting.

Thanks! Yeah, I'm of the mind that you need to grab your audience early and then figure out a way to keep them there for the ride. Easier said than done but I'm working on it.

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I personally like to work my story concept through with others first, I like being forced to fight for my ideas, have their worth challenged, helps show where I may need to expand and strengthen them, or abandon them and consider others... and when they survive, I usually have a very good idea why it's still there and it's value... this alos makes it easier to know why I may wnat to change something later and what it's ramifications may be... Then I write the script myself.

My two cents.

Best Wishes

Lliam

Great advice. I'm definitely trying to do that.
Going to meet with a few people next week for that very reason.

Thanks

 

[Kholi]

That's exactly what I'm going to do. The question was posed because I had other people telling me that I shouldn't focus on where I can put the story as that means I'm restricting myself creatively. That's why I was pointing it out so much.

For what it's worth, I agree with you 100%.

It definitely makes little sense to write a feature around a concept that you can't possibly execute properly. So, you're right, unless you've got the ability to re-create the moon, amazon forest, a third world country, or a medieval landscape then you probably shouldn't start there.

Anything else is fair game, though, even writing around expensive locations like Yachts, High Rise Buildings, etc. You'll find that once you separate yourself from the writing phase and view your material with the eyes of a producer a person being drowned on a Yacht by a killer could easily become a person being drowned in a sink at an expensive looking hotel gathering, then that can easily become a house party if you really want to cut costs. lol.

 

[Saharanturtle]

Again, I'm talking about writing an independent feature for yourself.

Oh okay, I definitely agree in that case. Thought maybe you were going to try to sell the script

 

[pulpfiction007]

Sorry that this is a very simple concept, but it is one that many people forget about when writing - (I was reminded of it when watching a Weezer rockumentary) This is what Rivers Cuomo said about his writing for an album and I think it applies to all forms:

Write what is really closest to you in terms of genre/style. Try to write a story that you would love to see and bank on the hope that if you would love to see it there will be many others out there who will too.
I also agree that in terms of scale, you should try to keep that in mind...because like Kholi, yourself and others have mentioned, it makes no sense to write a concept that you could never pull off in terms of budget. (this is of course when writing for a feature you plan to take on yourself)

 

[Batutta]

This thread reminded me of a Steve Martin joke..."Do you want to know how to make a million dollars?...First...You get a million dollars." The way to write a good independent feature...is to write a good independent feature first. Okay, I'm sure you meant what's the best way to go about writing an independent feature. Limit yourself to a few locations. Not too many characters. Avoid special effects (although any editing program can do simple composites which can open up the scale of your shots). And come up with a a thoughtful story featuring real, relatable characters and a premise that challenges mainstream values and/or filmmaking aesthetics. The last bit isn't necessary, but it will help your film get noticed if it's saying something mainstream films don't have the guts to, or if it's telling a story in a new way. All this is much easier than it sounds.

 

[Kholi]

This thread reminded me of a Steve Martin joke..."Do you want to know how to make a million dollars?...First...You get a million dollars." The way to write a good independent feature...is to write a good independent feature first. Okay, I'm sure you meant what's the best way to go about writing an independent feature. Limit yourself to a few locations. Not too many characters. Avoid special effects (although any editing program can do simple composites which can open up the scale of your shots). And come up with a a thoughtful story featuring real, relatable characters and a premise that challenges mainstream values and/or filmmaking aesthetics. The last bit isn't necessary, but it will help your film get noticed if it's saying something mainstream films don't have the guts to, or if it's telling a story in a new way. All this is much easier than it sounds.

But, honestly, avoiding too many locations, too many characters, special effects etc is even more limiting, isn't it? At that point, what are you going to make that hasn't been made twenty or so times before by another no-budget no-name filmmaker?

 

[Batutta]

But, honestly, avoiding too many locations, too many characters, special effects etc is even more limiting, isn't it? At that point, what are you going to make that hasn't been made twenty or so times before by another no-budget no-name filmmaker?

I don't see how. The important part, telling a good story, that says something new in a new way, is the hard part. That's why it's important. Yes, you can make a boring routine movie. So don't make one. Which brings me back to the Steve Martin joke. You can't avoid economics. More locations = more money. More characters = more actors which = more money. VFX = more money, unless you bring considerable skills to the table like the creator of Monsters.