The vibrating adaptor controversy.

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jacotte

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The verdict is in. We have been shooting a feature film using an EX1 and Letus Extreme over a one year period with an average one shooting day a week. The Letus worked fine for the fisrt four months. Then the problems began. Specifically the vribations on the ground glass became more intense. Grainyness and GG noise began to show even with new batteries. Other Letus units vibrated more than ours. So we sent the Letus in for servicing, and got it back. The vibrations were more intense but soon it turned out the lack of vibration problem returned. We wound up renting a Letus from another person. That person told us he had simlilar problems with Letus Extreme units, and the issue is always with insuficient GG vibrations. The technology is simply fragle and unreliable. The Letus GG rests on rubber columns and a small motor creates vibrations which the columns absorb. All it takes is for one column or motor to have a problem and the vibrations will be insuficient or abnormal resulting is excessive grain. Given the fragile nature of the design, the entire vibrating adaptor technology is to be avoided altogether. A spinning adaptor is certainly a cleaner and more reliable way to go. Vibrating adaptors are probably a bad compromise to begin with. My experience would be to stay away from vibrating adaptors. It is just an unreliable solution.
 
Yes, spinning adaptor is more reliable, because it's technical part is just more reliable and there is nothing to wear out, unless motor itself stops.

A team in my country shot a feature a year ago with LEX, they used two, and the second one barely made it to the finish...
 
The vibrating ground glass is a bad idea and I'm guessing was just a marketing gimmick (when they came out) more than it was ever meant to be a superior or even comparable design to the spinning gg adapters.

It's an interesting approach, but flawed and not worth considering I'd say.

.
 
The vibrating ground glass solution never made any sense to begin with. A five year old would have figured out a spinning adaptor is much less problematic. My feeling is they invented the vibrating adaptor as an quick and dirty afterthought to a static adaptor.
 
Your guess would be wrong. The first adapter on the market was the mini35, a spinner. They went to the vibrating version in later models to get around the problems that the spinning caused. Specifically the "vortex of doom" that happened near the hub of the spinning disc, as the grain was more visible at the center of the spinning ground glass than it was at the edges. The vibrating adapter equally distributed the motion across the entire screen.
 
Aren't Cinevate's Brevis35 adaptors vibrators? And aren't they pretty reliable (and generally loved by their owners)? If so, isn't it a bit presumptuous to say that ALL vibrating adapters are worthless and inferior based on one or two units from one model line from one manufacturer?
 
The early vibrating adapters were smaller & lighter and that was a big deal . Not until the Letus Ultimate and the Blade did they get lighter and smaller.
 
jacotte said:
So if the vribrating adaptor is so great, why is the Letus Ultimate a spinning adaptor?
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Well, first of all, I didn't say that vibrating adapters were "so great". I told you the history of how the adapters developed.

Second, the ultimate is different than most spinners because it uses a lot smaller disc and at a much higher speed, and the disc itself appears to be basically grainless, which avoids all the problems of both designs.

But if you really want to know why the Letus Ultimate is a spinning adapter, you'd have to ask Hien or Quyen Le as to why they chose that specific design.
 
During the few years when the low cost adapters were being developed commercially, some companies decided to go with the spinning gg and some decided to go with the vibrating gg. As far as I can remember, the spinning units predominated (Wayne's and the RRM unit) early, so I'm assuming the later(?) designs that had to compete became vibrating units so as to not be just another spinning gg adapter.

I seem to recall RRM and Wayne's adapters being the most popular early in the game.

.
 
Mike Harvey said:
... isn't it a bit presumptuous to say that ALL vibrating adapters are worthless and inferior based on one or two units from one model line from one manufacturer?
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Ditto.

Frankly jacotte, it's really getting tiring to see you do thread after thread for no other purpose than to make (incorrect) inflammatory statements about this or that adapters. Your experience doesn't seems to reflect those of the majority of users. There's really no "controversy" over vibrating or spinning adapters. Vibrating designs have issues; spinners have issues. It's a waste of time trying to prove that one is superior to the other.
 
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Ditto also, Very tiring. Ill informed rants that people spend far too much time responding to. You should switch to politics. Maybe Fox news. Glenn Beck - that sort of thing.
 
To Spin or to shake... that's is the question

To Spin or to shake... that's is the question

The first adapter was developed in Europe, Germany, the company's P + S Tecnik, in the beginning they started with a rotating disk, but several much less effective than these today (full disc projection). Basically was a disc spinning by rubber belts, the frame was projected directly on the center of the disc, of course as it loses speed toward the center of the disc was a final static point. After a while they developed the classic model of random vibration as these you found today. Also in Germany has risen the first static model, the Movietube, both adapters were extremely expensive.

The first adapter with a rotating disk (half disc projection) that I heard about was the M2 Redrockmicro and then the model Agus35 home, and then the Sgpro.

For a mere matter physics, the technique of rotating a disk is more powerful, with the same amount of energy used its able to have a more ordered dynamics, this means more speed and less vibration of the whole system.

However, all that glitters is not gold, you could see such as arches, like the forrows on the surface of old vinyl music discs, this is because these round ground glasses were originally square plates, satin randomly (even laser light shaping plates are not made to spin), and then are cutted as round shapes, to make round ggs. Now here comes the error, if an optical assembly is designed to have a precise movement, to make it more efficient is necessary to exploit better the dynamic, because a 'spinning adapter' is not only optical but also, in fact, dynamic.

The Modo35, which I have begun to build for the fun, from the far 2004, long before most developers today in the market. This system is designed with the help of my engineers friends specializing in optics, lasers and nano technlogy, taking more from the rotational organized movement , the frosted surface follows a precise optical path, when it turns the projected image is entirely free of any classical optical noise, even at the f - Stop apertures such as f32. In the footage you see however poor light, it was late and the sun was already half-fallen, under bright lights you can close the aperture more with no problem, here: http://www.vimeo.com/7832465

In conclusion, I personally think that the rotation system is optically stronger than the vibration one, however could be even better if used with more technological cunning.
 
I've been on this production for a year using a LETUS EXTREME vibrating adaptor. I think I've paid my dues in terms of experience. People should be thankful for getting this information and feedback without having to go through the same time investment I did. Based on my experience, the vibrating adaptor design is fragile and problematic. Next time I would want to avoid it altogether. I'm not ranting on anybody. I'm giving you my free feedback. You should be thankful that I made the effort to give you this free information. I didn't have to.
 
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jacotte said:
I've been on this production for a year using a LETUS EXTREME vibrating adaptor. I think I've paid my dues in terms of experience.
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Fine, then present your experience from a single user's perspective, don't make sweeping generalizations. When you say things like "the entire vibrating adaptor technology is to be avoided altogether" you're discounting the experiences of hundreds of Letus and Brevis' users who had had no issues with their unit whatsoever, including myself.
 
Okay, Huy vu, here is your special version for the slow minded:

In my opion, the verdict is in. As per our experience, we have been shooting a feature film using an EX1 and Letus Extreme over a one year period with an average one shooting day a week. In my opinion the Letus worked fine for the fisrt four months. In my opinion, then the problems began. As per my observations specifically the vribations on the ground glass became more intense. In my opinion, grainyness and GG noise began to show even with new batteries. In my opinion other Letus units vibrated more than ours. In my opion we sent the Letus in for servicing, and got it back. In my opinion the vibrations were more intense but soon it turned out the lack of vibration problem returned. In my opinion, we wound up renting a Letus from another person. In my opinion, that person told us he had simlilar problems with Letus Extreme units, and the issue is always with insuficient GG vibrations. In my opinion, the technology is simply fragle and unreliable. In my opinion, the Letus GG rests on rubber columns and a small motor creates vibrations which the columns absorb. In my opinion, all it takes is for one column or motor to have a problem and the vibrations will be insuficient or abnormal resulting is excessive grain. In my opinion, given the fragile nature of the design, the entire vibrating adaptor technology is to be avoided altogether. In my opinion, a spinning adaptor is certainly a cleaner and more reliable way to go. In my opinion, vibrating adaptors are probably a bad compromise to begin with. In my opinion, my experience would be to stay away from vibrating adaptors. It is just an unreliable solution. That is my opinion.
In my opinion, Huy Vu is just being a jerk today. That is of course just my opinion.
 
jacotte said:
Okay, Huy vu, here is your special version for the slow minded:

In my opion, the verdict is in. As per our experience, we have been shooting a feature film using an EX1 and Letus Extreme over a one year period with an average one shooting day a week. In my opinion the Letus worked fine for the fisrt four months. In my opinion, then the problems began. As per my observations specifically the vribations on the ground glass became more intense. In my opinion, grainyness and GG noise began to show even with new batteries. In my opinion other Letus units vibrated more than ours. In my opion we sent the Letus in for servicing, and got it back. In my opinion the vibrations were more intense but soon it turned out the lack of vibration problem returned. In my opinion, we wound up renting a Letus from another person. In my opinion, that person told us he had simlilar problems with Letus Extreme units, and the issue is always with insuficient GG vibrations. In my opinion, the technology is simply fragle and unreliable. In my opinion, the Letus GG rests on rubber columns and a small motor creates vibrations which the columns absorb. In my opinion, all it takes is for one column or motor to have a problem and the vibrations will be insuficient or abnormal resulting is excessive grain. In my opinion, given the fragile nature of the design, the entire vibrating adaptor technology is to be avoided altogether. In my opinion, a spinning adaptor is certainly a cleaner and more reliable way to go. In my opinion, vibrating adaptors are probably a bad compromise to begin with. In my opinion, my experience would be to stay away from vibrating adaptors. It is just an unreliable solution. That is my opinion.
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Now there you go, doesn't that make you feel good?
 
jacotte said:
Okay, Huy vu, here is your special version for the slow minded:

In my opion, the verdict is in. As per our experience, we have been shooting a feature film using an EX1 and Letus Extreme over a one year period with an average one shooting day a week. In my opinion the Letus worked fine for the fisrt four months. In my opinion, then the problems began. As per my observations specifically the vribations on the ground glass became more intense. In my opinion, grainyness and GG noise began to show even with new batteries. In my opinion other Letus units vibrated more than ours. In my opion we sent the Letus in for servicing, and got it back. In my opinion the vibrations were more intense but soon it turned out the lack of vibration problem returned. In my opinion, we wound up renting a Letus from another person. In my opinion, that person told us he had simlilar problems with Letus Extreme units, and the issue is always with insuficient GG vibrations. In my opinion, the technology is simply fragle and unreliable. In my opinion, the Letus GG rests on rubber columns and a small motor creates vibrations which the columns absorb. In my opinion, all it takes is for one column or motor to have a problem and the vibrations will be insuficient or abnormal resulting is excessive grain. In my opinion, given the fragile nature of the design, the entire vibrating adaptor technology is to be avoided altogether. In my opinion, a spinning adaptor is certainly a cleaner and more reliable way to go. In my opinion, vibrating adaptors are probably a bad compromise to begin with. In my opinion, my experience would be to stay away from vibrating adaptors. It is just an unreliable solution. That is my opinion.
In my opinion, Huy Vu is just being a jerk today. That is of course just my opinion.
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This trajectory will win you few friends around these parts...
 
jacotte said:
Okay, Huy vu, here is your special version for the slow minded:
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Except Huy has been putting out some pretty darn good shorts using a LEX I believe. Not exactly "slow minded". And insulting him doesn't make your argument any more valid.

If you want to talk about your own bad experience, fine. But as Huy pointed out, there are many many more users of the LEX and especially the Brevis who are just tickled pink with their adapters. Your problem is that you take your own bad experience which represents one person with one unit from one manufacturer and project it onto every other vibrating unit and user ever. That is a just a tad bit presumptuous, and doesn't do anyone like me who is looking at getting an adapter any good because your experience isn't representative of everyone else, but you present it as if it were.

You got a lemon. That is good to know. But your lemon doesn't mean every other one from every manufacturer is.

And Ted is right, no need to throw around insults to those that disagree with you.
 
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