The Tangled Web of the hybrid/B-cam Decision

M

mcbob

Veteran
A mild vent. Pay no mind if you're not into commiseration.

My heavily-used GH4 may have finally given up on life after soldiering on with a non-functional touch screen and wobbly lens mount from an unfortunate faceplant about a year ago. I knew this day would come, and really... the clear successor for B-cam and occasional photo work should've been an easier decision.

But...

Using the FS5 as my primary camera on most jobs, the Sony A7III would be a natural companion. However, Sony native glass is pricey, so I'd need to invest several thousand more to take advantage of its autofocus capabilities for photos (and video, if I ever did that). The only native lens I have is the 18-105, which isn't spectacular (or full frame). Most of the lenses I have and use on the FS5 are Nikon mount... so hey, maybe I should consider the Z6 instead... except it won't be as simple a match on multicamera shoots, it only has one card slot, and then there's that pesky 29 minute recording time limit that ruins interview shoots... A7III has the same problem... so maybe I just nudge over to the proven GH5... I have the batteries already... except its autofocus, even with native lenses (of which I really don't own that many anymore, having mostly Nikon-mount glass as mentioned), is... not good... and I've really liked shooting full-frame when I've rented still cameras for shoots recently, and its color is rough to match with FS5 in post. As a slight edge up, that Panasonic S1 (or S1H, whenever it arrives) would abolish both the recording time limit and yield full frame... but then there's an even more expensive lens system with no electronic Nikon adapters. I COULD get auto features on the A7 or S1 if I changed all my Nikon-mount Sigmas over to EF-mount and used one of their Sigma adapters, but then that's a couple hundred lost on a mount switch-over for half a dozen lenses that still aren't 100% on adaptation, and I lose the nostalgia of shooting jobs with the exact 18-35 that I once drove over with my car.

So yeah. Paralyzed.

Unless, of course, someone has a good E or L -to-Nikon electronic adapter I don't know about. But even then... I'm still probably paralyzed.


FWIW I've used the A7III and GH5 previously (rentals or client gear). Both worked... OK, but both have their various problems. Haven't used the Z6... I did enjoy the D850 I also rented on a job. I can only assume it's a similar mix of features and flubs, as is everything else out there.

At least I know I'm not buying anything Canon. I guess that's something.
 
You seem to have thought everything out and your thoughts sum up my own conundrum (that's been ongoing for 5 years) in some ways as well.

For what it's worth, there is ONE electronic Nikon/L-mount adapter (I only know because I was looking into it for something):

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1318290-REG/novoflex_sl_nik_nikon_af_lens_adapter.html

I only mention it because for some people push-button AF is good enough. I'm assuming continuous video AF would not even be possible with it as part of the description specifically mentions only AF-S. Even if it did allow continuous AF, I'm not sure how well it would work or how consistent it would be (and that applies to the Z6 and a7III as well although the a7III has showed some great results with adapters and EF glass).

You really need that native glass if AF is a consideration.

If Sony is a serious consideration and APS-C is okay, maybe take a look at the a6400. No time limit and the lenses are cheaper.

There is also an APS-C mode on all of the full-frame cameras you mentioned if you ever did want to use your Sigma.

If I were you just wait...at least until Wednesday.
 
I won't be much help except I have an FS 5 and two Z6's and some Sigma Art primes. I haven't managed to match the cameras yet. Most of my work is stills and I had a boatload of Nikon lenses so an A7lll wasn't really an option. I shoot multicam shows and shoot the Nikons to outboard recorders to get around the time limits which also gives me 10bit. They have been fantastic for me. The last show the client basically didn't bother to light so I was at 5000 ISO @ 2.8 and a 40th to help a little more. The 10 bit was a revelation for me and after applying Neat video was amazingly good.
I have never used a D850 but own a D800 but don't compare the Z6 with those. So completely different. The Z6 and the Sigmas @ 1.4 are fantastic. I would never risk 1.4 on any of my DSLR's but the af on the Z6 is very secure and I can even focus manually easily @1.4 which is impossible on a DSLR.
The Sigmas are no good for AF video though if you are ever forced to rely on an on camera mic. Way too much pickup of the af motors.
The video out of them looks beautiful to me and I much prefer it to my FS5
Like I said not much help but I thought I would offer my thoughts.
 
1. You might be stuck in a false dichotomy. You don't have to do everything "right" right now. In a pinch? Grab a used GH5 for cheap, be done with it, it's your same setup. I wouldn't oversweat this just because your GH4 happen to die right now. Were you otherwise ready to make a big leap? If not, a cheap used GH5 is a smoking deal and super natural transition for right now with no further thought required, and you can just resell it when you're ready or desiring a bigger leap.

2. Sigma just announced their L-mount / E-mount lenses. They are excellent and should be affordable, comparably. They are coming as soon as next month, with a bunch trickling out over the next 6 months and beyond. Obviously, native is far and away the best for native AF compatibility. Something to consider for either system.

3. If AF is not a top priority, investing in EF glass is not a bad call. *Especially* used. You can now adapt it to pretty much any mirrorless camera. Great, no more platform locking. If you buy mirrorless glass, you gain convenience and AF but especially with the short flange mirrorless glass, you are pretty much platform locked.

4. If AF is a top priority, Sony might currently be the more promising pick. The S1 is by no means looking bad, but my understanding is they are 3rd place among Canon, Sony, Panny. If AF is more of a nicety (given you FS5 and GH4, I would say its a nicety/curiosity) the l-mount platform should be promising long term as Panasonic seems to care quite a bit right now and has been pushing full steam ahead. I think the S2 will have great, great AF.

4. If AF is not a top priority, I am a bit biased because this is the choice I personally made, but for non-AF priorities today Panasonic is to me the clear winner, far and away. Their product lineup right now is killer. You could get an EVA1 and an S1 (or S1H this fall) which shares the same color gamut and log profile. They are very robust and just make a great, great team. If you consider the S1H, both do 4K 60p 10-bit internal which is just crazy. The menu, UI, long record times, heat management, etc. etc. is wonderful. There is the XLR adapter for the GHx and S1 series which shares the same unit.

Good luck!
 
budget?


Why not just pick up another Fs5? They are going for around $2500.00 pre-owned. Or, make the fs5 you already own the "B" camera and pick up a pre-owned Fs7 for your "A" camera. That avoids trying to match different makes of cameras, you could use all your Nikon glass, you avoid any run-time issues, and you don't have to futz with a lil' dinky camera.

I own an Fs7 and about two months ago I bought an A7s II. I've only used the A7s as a B-cam once. As for matching the two, I don't do post work. Can't speak to that. Pure shooter only.
 
I like the Z6 (for) having shot nikon stills for years

I like the Gh5s too - it is very good quality video

or get a used Gh4

Each has ts own problems.. the only I can think of on the nikon is the lack of 10bit, but at least the colour is ok out of the box.
 
Thanks for the input, all

The mild frustration is for the lack of clear choice because of the path I've worked down. I used to be very much into m4/3 (AF100, GH2 then GH4, a good half dozen native lenses) until Panasonic dropped the ball offering an upgrade path on the pro cinema camera side. As I started to rent F3/5/FS7/5 out of client preference, and the lack (at that time) of good EF adapters, Nikon glass made sense. Some additional bad repair (or lack thereof) experiences on Panasonic glass finally soured me to m4/3, so I started selling off most of that kit (lenses first). I now have only two m43 lenses (14-140 and 25/1.7), so not much to keep me in that system.

A second FS5 would certainly make the most sense if I didn't need the photo capability... m4/3 wasn't really getting me what I needed in that respect for a variety of reasons. I will likely get an FS7 down the road if a few clients pick up (I'm still below the "rental is cheaper" window on that one), but could really use the photo capability and portability.

Leaning towards the Z6, although I'd need to dump an extra ~$700 on a Ninja V to get the most from it.
 
If you’re planning on going FS7 and selling off m43 gear, why not just stay Sony? Even if the Z6 is ahead today, sony releases plenty of new cameras on a regular basis. And your clients like them.

It’s a little more work, but perhaps sell off your Nikon glass and go all in on e mount?

What would you do if you weren’t tied with any sunk cost bias? Your system sounds sort of scattered right now - Nikon glass, m43 b camera, e mount a camera. Maybe it’s time to consolidate? E mount is a safe enough bet these days and now there’s sigma making native e mount lenses, and you’ve always got the used market.
 
Im in the same boat Nikkor glass, Emount a camera, MFT b cam.

The thing about nikkor glass is it fits..
nikon, canon, sony, MFT, and probably the new lens mount too.
Personally I think it is the last thing to sell. Ever.
Not to mention in manual focus it is just good better than any AF glass

As it happens it is not that useful on the Z6.. which really comes to its own using the new 24-70.

I basically have two sets of Nikkor AF and MF, I only use the AF for stills (D1 and D600) or on the Z6.
 
Sony just announced the a7R IV. It won’t solve your recording time limit, I don’t believe, but something to check out.
 
BCAM can be a complication that affects ACAM. Part of the reason I went Eva1 was to do an Eva1/GH5 setup which was a better duo in my opinion than the C200/1dXmkii, the Fs5 or 7/As7II, etc. I used mostly Nikon or sigma art primes and it worked, though a few Lumix lenses meant I was carrying extra stuff only for one camera. Now, with the S1, the lens mount disparity is gone and I can treat the S1 as an EF mount camera and use the same lenses across the board on both.
 
I have shot with the Z6 and the A7III and the latter is the more mature option at this point. The main selling points of the Nikon were the "native" adaptation of the nikkor glass and the potential for RAW. RAW is turning out to be elusive and there is really no advantage with Nikon glass because both cameras will require an adaptor and nither will give you any AF.

I would stay with Sony so they will cut together more easily.

-gl
 
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