The state of the Industry

Vultch

Vultch

Well-known member
Just some random thoughts - not a complaint or rant.

I came from a career as an Engineer with a big European broadcaster, I moved into production and loved it and set up my own business mainly servicing the corporate market.
I have had a blast and have been fortunate enough to pick up some lovely contracts travelling the world and staying in some cool hotels etc.

But during this time some 10 yrs or so, my rates have barely changed, I had to keep them steady as the market is now pretty saturated and rates have dropped, well certainly in Europe. It's the nature of the beast, it's a very competitive market as Universities and colleges churn out media graduates by the hundreds every year. The vast majority aspire to work on big-budget productions but end up buying a DSLR and turning to the corporate world.
I have also noticed many of my old clients/businesses now have their own media departments, they employ a cheap to hire newly qualified media graduate, a laptop and camera and off they go. No need to buy outside.

Covid has really killed a lot of my work, I have some bookings still coming in but I have applied for a part-time job back in engineering to keep some cash coming in. What has surprised me is that the salary's in Engineering have really soared and the difference between my rate for video production and what I can earn working as an engineer is not so great and its stress-free with lots of perks.
I also have two good friends who each have separate businesses in car or auto bodywork repair, they are in their mid-thirties and yet both are hardworking and quite wealthy enjoying fantastic lifestyles.
Make you think (well me anyhow) time perhaps to branch out into something else, I can't see rates increasing in the future given the ease and simplicity of modern video production was good enough is good enough.
I have seen some terrible corporates yet the price was right and the customer is happy to run with that.
 
I go back and forth on this, honestly. For reference, I'm late 30s, been doing this since 2010, living in a reasonably large market (DC area). I've only started dipping into decent rates these past 3 years or so, and I feel like they'd still be considered mid-tier at best by some old school guys.

There's a ton of low paying stuff that will overwork you and make you hate the industry, that I've done my fair share of. There's also still some great work with excellent people that pays fairly, and reminds me why I enjoy doing this for a living. The biggest variable seems to be getting in and getting fed regular work from large organizations who afford to pay decent rates. Those have been my good experiences. The bad ones were always from individuals, or smaller orgs that just can't pay it, but still want high quality video.

My hunch is that there is still a good living to be made, but it's going to an increasingly small pool of people. If you can rise into that, great. If not, you'll join the majority of folks scraping by at the bottom. I don't blame those people for looking elsewhere beyond video production as a means to make a living. It's not pleasant at the bottom.
 
On the other hand, with streaming taking off, jobs at a high end pro tier - or what was once known as high end - are at the all time high. The streamers are jockeying for the positions and are putting tremendous funds into programming. I guess the key is being at that top level.
 
DLD said:
On the other hand, with streaming taking off, jobs at a high end pro tier - or what was once known as high end - are at the all time high. The streamers are jockeying for the positions and are putting tremendous funds into programming. I guess the key is being at that top level.
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Yeah but three things - some folks (Brawley, Phil Holland too IIRC) think that the pace of production of streamers is bound to taper off once the dust settles and the market stabilizes with fewer players.

Plus, scripted cinema/tv production is a hard life. Long days, lots of travel/on-location. Doesn't make it easy to have a family or even a relationship.

And lastly, while department heads can make big bucks, the rest of the crew is not minting a fortune. They may make a lot of money over the year by working a lot of days, but you could probably get more money for less time and effort doing mid-tier corporate stuff. It's not a picnic.

It's basically a different industry from videography and independent commercials/docs.
 
Not changing your rate is expensive. Let's assume your rate is 100 dollar per hour, you work about 1800 hours a year. Inflation correction should be about 2%. If you don't raise your rate this will cost you 170,949.00 dollar in 10 years time.
 
ahalpert said:
... Yeah but three things - some folks (Brawley, Phil Holland too IIRC) think that the pace of production of streamers is bound to taper off once the dust settles and the market stabilizes with fewer players..
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Everyone thinks so. However, the tide is high. Or, as the U-boat crews called it, "Die Glückliche Zeit". Might as well make use of it.
 
After seven years of being convinced that my clients would drop me if I did it, I finally raised my production rates this year. No one has really batted an eye. And I don't have a great grasp of what others in my market are charging, but on a recent chat with a production company I was told that I was "extremely reasonable". So perhaps I haven't raised them enough.

Granted at this point (also late thirties), a lot of my non-video friends are making at least 30-50% more than I am. But I think I like my job more than most of them.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Netflix stock price is down 37% for today, and that is on top of a 25% drop yesterday.
Their business model of green lighting any piece of **** that someone proposes is unsustainable. Sometimes less is more.
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And then someone says, "Gee, I think I've seen everything they have ... might as well take a break here .. don't feel like paying $20/mo anymore ... let's see what Apple or Paramount Plus have" ... and then the Netflix subscriber count takes another dip and the stock price takes another hit ... and the budgets get sliced even more ... and others slowly gain with their own subscriber counts ... and Netflix has to start paying off some of its $15B debt ... and then it's no longer the "Snow White and Seven Dwarfs" but Eight Dwarfs competing for the limited talent base ... and then who knows ... some things can spiral down quickly ... Sears, Kmart, AOL ...
 
Vultch said:
Just some random thoughts - not a complaint or rant.
...But during this time some 10 yrs or so, my rates have barely changed, I had to keep them steady as the market is now pretty saturated and rates have dropped, well certainly in Europe. It's the nature of the beast, it's a very competitive market as Universities and colleges churn out media graduates by the hundreds every year. The vast majority aspire to work on big-budget productions but end up buying a DSLR and turning to the corporate world.
I have also noticed many of my old clients/businesses now have their own media departments, they employ a cheap to hire newly qualified media graduate, a laptop and camera and off they go. No need to buy outside...
Click to expand...
This sort of cycle happens more than you think. Some tech advance, and there is great demand for it, then colleges pump out that type of skill set, the market gets over saturated and salaries fall. I used to be in web design during the dot com boom same thing happened.

The other thing is when you find out what other people make you can feel bad. My sister works in an unrelated industry recently her boss left for more money and she stumble onto her files she left behind with her salary $200,000...
 
NorBro said:
Waiting for DLD to tell us about CNN+ in 3...2...
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That's a non story, since it's never got off the ground.

Now, Musk's cash and Twitter is different. I get a lot of flack for suggesting it's a silly move.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Netflix stock price is down 37% for today, and that is on top of a 25% drop yesterday.
Their business model of green lighting any piece of **** that someone proposes is unsustainable. Sometimes less is more.
Click to expand...

Why is anyone surprised by this? People aren't sitting at home watching TV on lockdown, their navigation system sucks as do most of their new shows.
 
DLD said:
And then someone says, "Gee, I think I've seen everything they have ... might as well take a break here .. don't feel like paying $20/mo anymore ... let's see what Apple or Paramount Plus have" ... and then the Netflix subscriber count takes another dip and the stock price takes another hit ... and the budgets get sliced even more ... and others slowly gain with their own subscriber counts ... and Netflix has to start paying off some of its $15B debt ... and then it's no longer the "Snow White and Seven Dwarfs" but Eight Dwarfs competing for the limited talent base ... and then who knows ... some things can spiral down quickly ... Sears, Kmart, AOL ...
Click to expand...

It's all about the catalog. Netflix's first mover advantage is basically dead. My wife and I took a break from it almost 2.5 years ago because we were sort of tapped out of its offerings and decided to redirect the subscription money. I'm surprised that we haven't come back to it yet as there are things I want to watch there but there's far more **** that I want to watch than I have time for on the services we currently have (paramount+, HBO max, prime, hulu... I think I still have apple tv+ free for a year but I've never tried it)

that being said, I think wall street is crazy in the demand for infinite growth and overreacting to foreseeable changes in subscribership
 
QuickHitRecord said:
After seven years of being convinced that my clients would drop me if I did it, I finally raised my production rates this year. No one has really batted an eye. And I don't have a great grasp of what others in my market are charging, but on a recent chat with a production company I was told that I was "extremely reasonable". So perhaps I haven't raised them enough.

Granted at this point (also late thirties), a lot of my non-video friends are making at least 30-50% more than I am. But I think I like my job more than most of them.
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Yes, "extremely reasonable" means you're cheap. It would be good to find out what competitors are charging, or to employ a strategy of gradual rate increases until you encounter resistance. And you're worth more to your clients than the average rate because if they need to replace you it will cost them time and effort and they'll be taking a risk on an unproven provider
 
ahalpert said:
It's all about the catalog. Netflix's first mover advantage is basically dead...
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Aren't you contradicting yourself?

My take - which is where I probably agree with you - is that catalogs are an odd thing. I told this story once long ago. My ex female companion and I were at a supermarket back in 2015. As we were going through the checkout counter, I noticed a glossy mag with the cover story about the Princess Bride, which came out in 1987. As I once had a huge celebrity crush on Robin Wright, I pointed out the magazine to my companion. To my amazement, she'd never heard of the film. It was semi-explainable, as she hadn't lived in the US at the time of the film release. So, next I tried catching the attention of the 17-YO cashiers. We chatted for a few seconds. After I told them that it was a movie made twenty eight years earlier, one of the girls did an OMG. "I don't ever watch movies made before the year 2,000".

Well, that was seven years ago. Move the date to 2007 for someone else of the same age now. And that's when Netflix began to stream. Meaning that someone in his late teens may not be all that thrilled with the 10 year old catalog such as the House of Cards (which stars a much older Robin Wright). And if "old" is out, then the streamers are basically competing on content under five or so years and the accumulated catalog is grossly overvalued. And that evens out the playing field by a lot.

PS. I actually once met Robin Wright. Christmas shopping season 1988. I was selling audio at a large department store and she walked into my area, asking if we sold VCR's. Which looked a little like the CD players. Video wasn't my department and I took her to the adjacent aisle. Because I wanted to walk her to the adjacent aisle. Or anywhere.
 
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