The Sound Guy vs Everyone Else

[TyFord]

Matty, I am curious about your comments regarding set-up. So you are saying cameras are set up and framed while they are setting up lights?

Every professional set I have been on has the set dressed and lit, then they bring out the cameras and ops.

Sound needs that same respect. We need the set to be ready for a shoot so we can hear if there are any problems, not while they are still setting up.

As to not hiring us, I am not worried. I get jobs based on my knowledge and my attitude towards sound. I am very picky about sound and audio. I expect every other craft on a set to be the same about their own work.

Yes, a production needs for all crafts to work together. That is the whole point behind this thread. Short-changing the sound department on time is not working together. Making jokes about "Waiting on sound" is not really working together now, is it? People are not asking for more time than other crafts, just an equal consideration. But you view it as if we are asking too much, but you just said we need to work together.

Part of me is glad you have seen it from a sound guy's point of view, but the other part is disappointed that you really didn't learn anything.

Well Hunter was poking fun; telling a joke in an offensive way. In a way, not unlike an Archie Bunker. Opinionated and closed and rattling on. When he was called on it, he went fot the "it's a joke" escape. That doesn't cut it. Hunter can now choose to learn from the response to his gaffe or not. If he comes back with, "Gee, I never thought about it that way. I get it. Sorry." , then something good has happened here.

So Hunter, read Doc's very well written last thread, do ya get it?

Regards,

Ty Ford

 

[Doc Bernard]

Matty, I am not attacking you professionally, I don't know you from Adam. What I was doing was pointing out a pervasive attitude towards sound, which you seem to share.

Believe me, you are not the only one out there that has that attitude, you just happened to say a few things that hit some raw nerves. Especially this last post:

"And I think it's the remembering everyone has issues is the thing all of you guys bashing me are forgetting. " No, we are not forgetting that, we know that. We just want the same consideration the other crafts get. No more than that. I don't think that is too much to ask for, is it?

Look, I don't think your an as*hole, and I am not trying to make you look like one, but some of things you said did a good enough job for you. Sound is not something you can just get asked to do and be good at it "out of the box". Standing at (babysitting) the board is not the same as actually mixing or setting the rig and the talent up. We have to know that. It is something we go to school for, something we learn how to do. So, you are not a sound guy, cool, but you made it sound like that since you have "done it", you know what we deal with and have gone through. And then quickly dismissed our concerns. Then you equated a mixer to a PA, granted no one should be abused or be abusive, but to be a PA, what are the requirements compared to that of a mixer? That is why you were attacked by everyone.

Maybe sound guys are bitchy, as you say, but at least now you know why. And hopefully you will be able to consider that on your next shoot.

 

[TyFord]

Doc, that's pretty funny. In a nice way.

.....................
Mattykins says:
I really don't know what else to say. Aside from the fact that much of what I said has been misconstrued, my profession has been brought into question, and I've learned nothing.
........................

Well then Mattikins, you're just doomed to repeat you life until you do learn something. Check out "Groundhog Day." It's a comedy, but there's a lesson there. You weren't the op on this thread, so why protest?

Regards,

Ty Ford

 

[Hunter Hampton]

Well Hunter was poking fun; telling a joke in an offensive way. In a way, not unlike an Archie Bunker. Opinionated and closed and rattling on. When he was called on it, he went fot the "it's a joke" escape. That doesn't cut it. Hunter can now choose to learn from the response to his gaffe or not. If he comes back with, "Gee, I never thought about it that way. I get it. Sorry." , then something good has happened here.

So Hunter, read Doc's very well written last thread, do ya get it?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Its easy to misread tone when reading text. As you can see from the first post, I clearly said it was a joke and that I love sound guys- its not an out.

The truth is I do understand sound dept, I know how your "the red headed stepchild", I also know that good sound is incredibly important and difficult to produce which is why I regularly work out to have someone from sound dept come along when we check locations out. So they get the same chances as me and we end up having a smoother shoot- with better sound and visuals.

What I didn't see was the response of a posting like this,

To the people I offended, My sincere apologies.

And to the general readers of this thread, My apologies for the amount of whining that was generated in response.

 

[Doc Bernard]

Hunter, don't sweat it man, I know you meant it as a joke. That's why my comments weren't really directed towards you. But......you do see, now at least, there is a lot of frustration within the audio dept. And you actually helped, in that you opened the can and allowed a lot of it to be vented. So, I actually thank you.

Even though you meant it as a joke, there are a lot of producers/directors out there the actually think of audio that way (see previous posts). It really bothers a lot of audio guys that we don't get the credit we deserve for the work we do.

 

[ptalsky]

Matty,

I wasn't going to jump back into this fray, but since you quote me in your post, I feel it is important to now.

When I wrote, "Not speeding and not rolling" it was to highlight a point - on a low/no budget short I had a DP scream at an unpaid, volunteer boom op for 5 minutes because he dropped into the frame once on a 5 minute take. After we had requested a frame line and had been denied. Of course I immediately went to the AD, who proceeded to ignore the issue, so I spoke with the DP about this directly. I am always going to defend a member of my department, always. That kind of abuse is intolerable on any set. (Said boom op was not hired by me, but was a friend of the director, who also chose to ignore the issue). Ultimately every thing was smoothed over and we had a very productive day after that. When we asked for a frame line check, we were given one. (And, to repeat my earlier post, I never did actually delay a roll).

I do also think you've mis-read some of the posts here. I haven't seen anyone saying that sound deserves consideration ABOVE any other department. I think all we're asking for is some measure of equality. We cannot check for extraneous noises until the set is still and everyone is reasonably quiet. We cannot get accurate levels from actors by having them say 1-2-3 (or January-February-March). Ideally we would like to see/hear a full rehearsal. But, I would also say that most sound folks have learned to improvise and live without these things. Someone earlier said sound was sitting in craft services during the setup. For me, during setups my boom op is as close to the set as possible without being in the way, and I'm sitting and listening to see if I can catch any issues as early as possible. I've had grips and gaffers ask me what we're doing when I ask my boom op to "walk the lights" as I call it when I hear a hum - and they actually are pleased that we're doing it early, once they get that we're not second guessing them, but trying to give them early warning. But, occasionally my boom op will be chased away, and then yes, we have to track down the hum after the set is fully lit and camera is getting ready to roll.

Again, it's all about respect - hopefully you run your sets with it. Because there is not a lot of respect coming through in your posts. That may not be your intention, but that is the impression you are giving.

Happy holidays and a safe and prosperous new year to everyone!

Phil

 

[Hunter Hampton]

No worries Doc-

I'm sure most people on both sides have felt the inter-dept. tension before. I agree, its much better to talk about frustrations like these on a forum with people you don't work with, than to blow-up on set with people you do work with.

 

[ptalsky]

Hey Hunter,

I think another reason your post may have struck a nerve is that many of us not only do our sound work by day (and sometimes by night) but we also spend a good deal of time here helping others and providing a lot of free sound consulting (even when it means answering the same question over and over again). So seeing your post, even though it was said in jest, in this forum rankles a bit.

Have a terrific holiday!

Phil