The included rod is long and will work as it does on the FS7 for shoulder use. I took a shorter rod out of my toolbox and used that instead as I seldom do shoulder shooting anymore.
FX6: The Sony ILME-FX6V Owners Club
- Thread starter Ben Scott
- Start date
The included rod is long and will work as it does on the FS7 for shoulder use. I took a shorter rod out of my toolbox and used that instead as I seldom do shoulder shooting anymore.
Ben Scott
Veteran
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
That's exactly what Sony would like you to say. S-Cinetone is easy to use and good enough to satisfy the needs of many productions. Mission accomplished.
But that doesn't change the fact that it is also a dumbing down of the camera's true capabilities and will not provide what most people would say are the camera's "best" images, especially if you drift out of the narrow range of shooting situations and styles that S-Cinetone is designed for.
For my needs, the FX6 does not have an acceptable WYSIWYG shooting mode. Every frame coming out of that camera needs to be graded to one degree or another.
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Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
I agree, thus my use of "quotes" when I said best. But if YOU can improve YOUR own S-Cinetone footage in post with some grading, then I would argue the original raw footage was not the "best" it could be even in your own eyes. Possibly still "good enough", though. We're not making art most of the time. But nevertheless, I find the FX6 a very frustrating camera to get a good WYSIWYG look out of. The best option for me is to shoot with S-LOG3 so I preserve the best possible image, because even if I shoot with S-Cinetone it's still gonna have to be graded anyway.
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NorBro
Major Contributor
There is nothing special about S-Cinetone; it's just a marketing word.
It's nothing more than a slightly different approach to a gamma curve in comparison to traditional REC709 options.
All of these companies have different tonal values/ranges and colors. And although the science/math differs, they all offer hybrid modes like this under different names (like BM's 'Extended Video' or Canon WDR or Panasonic's Cine D/V or RED's options in post via REDCODE).
Sony has had the Cine1/2/3/4 PPs in their cameras for years and it's a similar concept, but reinventing the wheel and marketing S-Cinetone as a feature that's shared in the FX9 which tries to imitate the VENICE is profitable.
It's nothing more than a slightly different approach to a gamma curve in comparison to traditional REC709 options.
All of these companies have different tonal values/ranges and colors. And although the science/math differs, they all offer hybrid modes like this under different names (like BM's 'Extended Video' or Canon WDR or Panasonic's Cine D/V or RED's options in post via REDCODE).
Sony has had the Cine1/2/3/4 PPs in their cameras for years and it's a similar concept, but reinventing the wheel and marketing S-Cinetone as a feature that's shared in the FX9 which tries to imitate the VENICE is profitable.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Yes, well said and I agree with almost all of that.
But I will add that by stripping the FX6 of almost all the regular gamma choices and paint menus that have served us very well on previous cameras -- the camera has been hobbled by Sony in ways not seen on the FX9, FS7, F55, etc. All in an attempt by Sony (probably successfully) to appeal to folks who don't want to deal with menus or fine-tuning their cameras for better WYSIWYG looks. If you want a point and shoot cinema camera that has a certain baked-in look, the FX6 fits the bill. But if you can't accept S-Cintone, then you either have to go to S-LOG3 or beat your head against the wall trying to get the camera to do something it can't do.
But I will add that by stripping the FX6 of almost all the regular gamma choices and paint menus that have served us very well on previous cameras -- the camera has been hobbled by Sony in ways not seen on the FX9, FS7, F55, etc. All in an attempt by Sony (probably successfully) to appeal to folks who don't want to deal with menus or fine-tuning their cameras for better WYSIWYG looks. If you want a point and shoot cinema camera that has a certain baked-in look, the FX6 fits the bill. But if you can't accept S-Cintone, then you either have to go to S-LOG3 or beat your head against the wall trying to get the camera to do something it can't do.
Are any of you using the easyrig minimax for the 6? I purchased it since this is such a light camera, but by the time I add VCT pad, the small golg mount battery on rear rails for balance, shape arm to move the handle and a monitor on the back, I’m already past the 15.4lb weight limit.
Joshua Milligan
Well-known member
I am! I just purchased the Minimax a few weeks ago and am using the heck out of it with my FX6. I absolutely love it.
My is working off of a custom built Area-Swiss plate that has 15mm rod clamps built into the front. I use a PolarPro Basecamp matte box attached to whichever lenses I'm working with via the lens clamps and have replaced my FX6 monitor with the one from the FX9 including the FX9's monitor mount. I also have a Zacuto Z-Finder on at all times plus a shotgun mic and usually up to three channels of wireless mics plus a 5" SmallHD monitor. Sometimes I'll even put on a Wooden Camera Arca-Swiss mounted shoulder pad as well as a Zacuto Z-Trigger Grip to extend the grip out in front.
Even with those attachments, my FX6 still feels pretty dang light and works very well on my Minimax. If I had someone take a picture of me with the Minimax on, I'd show you, but here's some pics of my build (minus the shoulder pad and Z-Trigger Grip) just to just you what it looks like.
I don't see the problem as you do Doug. If S-Cinetone works for some work well that's fine and when LOG is needed it's there. On my FS7 I only shot in Cine EI mode because I didn't like the images out of custom mode but on the FX6 S-Cinetone looks great so that's a big advantage to the work I do over the FS7.
I could continue to use S-log3 on my FX6 but it's so easy to hand over great looking baked footage to clients also. It's easy and I like easy. Easy for me, easy for them.
I could continue to use S-log3 on my FX6 but it's so easy to hand over great looking baked footage to clients also. It's easy and I like easy. Easy for me, easy for them.
Joshua Milligan
Well-known member
While I shoot in Slog3/S-Gamut3.Cine 95% of the time, I do use S-Cinetone for livestreams as well as when shooting files for a client when I'm not handling post production and their guys don't know how to handle log. During those times, I've found S-Cinetone to look fantastic. Way better than any WYSIWYG options I was ever able to get out of my FS7 or FS7II. In fact, no matter what options I tried for WYSIWYG looks out of the FS7, I never liked any straight out of camera looks.
I am bummed that Sony took away all the paint menus that the FS7/FX9 have and I don't feel like that was a good move, but either way, I feel that S-Cinetone and what I can get out of the FX6 today when not shooting log is a major improvement in this camera and I believe it's actually one of its strengths. But to each his own.
I am bummed that Sony took away all the paint menus that the FS7/FX9 have and I don't feel like that was a good move, but either way, I feel that S-Cinetone and what I can get out of the FX6 today when not shooting log is a major improvement in this camera and I believe it's actually one of its strengths. But to each his own.
Very nice setup! For balance, I have a shape baseplate with short carbon rods on the rear for a gold mount. I use little 98w pags for that. I also have the Z finder, and run zacutos little axis for the fx6 which extends it for HH use. My goal is to have it basically rigged for HH, so that I can go shoulder mount with the minimax, but then sling it forward and move the shape arm reverse to shoot in the more traditional easyrig way. I weighed it with this stuff on it recently cause the minimax is still in route, and realized I’m almost 2lbs over the 15.4 max payload. I’ve seen some reviews say that it can handle more, but I guess I’ll find out when it arrives.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Well, that sounds like exactly the kind of shooting where S-Cinetone shines. I didn't say it never looked good, I said there is a very narrow range of where it looks good . . . indoors. Human faces. Drama. A little underexposed for normal broadcast standards.
I think a lot of people who say they are happy with S-Cinetone are proably shooting indoors in controlled conditions. Have you ever taken it outside on a bright sunny day and shot b-roll? Have you tried putting whites up around 90 IRE where broadcast clients expect them to land? If so, are you happy with the dynamic range of S-Cinetone, the color saturation, and shadow detail at those levels? Personally, I think it looks pretty bad in those situations. One shot might look okay, but the next one won't. There is no consistency. I'd love to see someone who says otherwise post some ungraded S-Cinetone footage to prove their point. Not just one shot, but a series of shots from one shooting situation. The kind of coverage you'd do on a documentary, sports package, news event, or corporate production outdoors. Let's see it.
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Doesn’t the 6 have the custom LUT mode feature? I know I read an article talking about being able to load user LUTs into custom mode, and then being able to tweak those from the regular custom mode menus. In that case, it’s far more versatile than even my FX9 in a WYSIWYG scenario.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Yes, that sounds really good on paper, doesn't it? In practice, however, I couldn't get good WYSIWYG results with any of the about a dozen popular LUTs that I tried. Some of them were created and promoted by someone who says they are great for the FX6, yet strangely enough, has not posted any actual footage of them in use. Isn't that interesting. Where's the footage? Perhaps I am just a hack who doesn't know what he is doing, so I welcome the opportunity to see some actual ungraded footage that was shot with a burned in LUT on the FX6. Let's see it. Do you have any?
My 6 just arrived and I haven’t even powered it on. I’ve had a 9 since launch. In researching the 6 I have seen some examples of the Phantom LUTs burned in. Those seem to look great, but I don’t believe it was via custom mode, just the old baking in via SLOG. Almost like a new generation of LC709a.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
I'd love to see that footage. Baking in via S-LOG would be just fine with me. I don't care what mode it uses, I just want to find a WYSIWYG LUT or scene file that that could be burned in and looks good in most all-around shooting situations outdoors, bright sunshine, etc.
drboffa
Well-known member
I posted this before (possibly in this very thread?) but the first part of this video is S-Cinetone straight out of camera, no grading:
To my eyes it looks pretty damn good—although I would definitely do some grading on the footage if I were using it "for real." That said, I suppose this is a narrow range of circumstances and lighting (and may be where S-Cinetone shines: i.e., not super high contrast).
I used S-Cinetone at an indoor sports event recently and it worked really well in that situation, although again it needed some grading. But I can't imagine a scenario where I *wouldn't* do any grading in post, even if it's just a little tweaking here and there.
To my eyes it looks pretty damn good—although I would definitely do some grading on the footage if I were using it "for real." That said, I suppose this is a narrow range of circumstances and lighting (and may be where S-Cinetone shines: i.e., not super high contrast).
I used S-Cinetone at an indoor sports event recently and it worked really well in that situation, although again it needed some grading. But I can't imagine a scenario where I *wouldn't* do any grading in post, even if it's just a little tweaking here and there.