Graeme_Nattress
Red Team
Jay, you're right - we're creating a canvas that other artists can draw on, and that includes 3rd party hardware support.
Graeme
Graeme
The RED full-meal-deal?
- Thread starter Windjammer
- Start date
Gibby
Red Savant
Barry and me have been friends for several years now, and nothing in my approach to his position is of a personal nature. Friends sometimes disagree professionally, plain and simple.
I routinely work in digital cinema, other cine-style genres (commercials, music, etc.) and various EFP/ENG-style genres (sports, reality, documentaries, large events, etc.) - about 20 sub-genres of production. A typical workday may include portions of projects in several of those genres. As such, I'm sensitive to the needs of each genre and sub-genre, and the pride each group has in their area of labor. I believe the era of mono-genre workers is drawing to a close - that cross-genre workers are now the core of the workplace, and the future of it. With few exceptions, directors and shooters need to now be facile in both cine-style and EFP/ENG-style production to compete. As an artist I much prefer digital cinema work when the time and resources permit, and the project calls for it. That said, when I do EFP and ENG-style work I always weave my digital cinema production values into the project to give it flavor, quality, and interest - even if that can only involve intros, outros, and creative montages in an otherwise ENG-style production. I'm an invited judge for the National Emmy Awards each year. I've been pleased to see a metamorphous in the production values of many of the EFP/ENG-style genres towards more cinematic values - something I view as an end product of the convergence of cine-style and EFP/ENG-style production worlds. I've been waiting for a camera that can be quickly re-accessorized for use in the multiple genres I work in. I obviously understand that one camera system can't be great for all of them, no matter what you accessorize it with, but a range of "good to very good" for use in the sub-genres would save me time and expense of not having to own and continually rent multiple camera systems.
Features and digital cinema obviously draw attention, but the number of shooters that work exclusively in those genres (and sub-genres) is the tip of the iceberg compared to the combined number of shooters who regularly work in multiple genres of production - the 9/10ths of the berg under water. It's this large second group of shooters who are the largest potential users of RED One. Real low budget indies can't quite afford RED One yet, and longtime cinematographers will be slow to budge out of their comfort zone for various reasons. In witness of that, check out RED's reception to date on the cinematography boards. They will come around after RED ships - when up and coming shooters start taking jobs from them and producers/directors start requesting RED cameras.
I'm the rare highly-experienced, cross-genre guy who takes the time to hang out on indie/prosumer boards like DVX User. Why? Because through certain portions of my career I've had to absolutely maximize technology to get a high-end look from occasionally low-end budgets. My operational mantra has always been "Minimize overhead - maximize technology". It's on boards like DVX User that I can help keep my finger on the pulse of innovative maximization of affordable technology. Almost all the work I do as a producer/director/shooter is national and international, but being able to keep budgets in line is important no matter what size project I tackle.
To address the core subject of this thread, I feel that the price/performance ratio of RED One will be excellent if the camera performs up to its specifications. In short, I feel that RED has proposed a price lower than most of us ever anticipated. I also feel that its strength is its scalability and flexibility - start with a small core and accessorize outward for each project needs.
Accessorization for EFP/ENG style production? I've covered that at length in other threads, but a bare-bones field production kit can fit in a budget of $25k to $28k if you know what/how to buy.
TV executive reaction to RED? I produce/direct/shoot national and international programs that air on 12 different broadcast and cable networks. I speak with network executives weekly and sometimes daily. By now its no secret to them that I've reserved a RED One camera system. They ask me tons of questions about it, because they know I'll be using REDs in many of my series and one-off programs that I'll deliver to them. I don't get many negative comments. These people are pros - they understand equipment utility and workflows. In my experience, most of them readily understand that RED is a modular and flexible camera system that shoots a wide range of lens and image formats. Their feedback to me is more like "So you can quickly change out lenses and accessories, and move on to shooting in another manner? Very cool - so you could shoot for us on a movie of the week, then turn around quickly and shoot promos, sports, documentaries, etc.? Interesting...now tell me about this REDCINE workflow". I have to educate these guys about the new camera system I'll be using and its workflow. Once they understand it, I've experienced no major objections from them.
Summary
I think RED One is priced very reasonable and I anticipate RED accessories to follow suit. I think multi-genre directors/shooters represent the largest block of potential RED One users. I think RED One will eventually penetrate many motion media genres of production. And lastly - I think Barry Green is a hugely talented and knowledgeable professional who does an excellent job moderating DVX User and writing books. That said...I also think he needs to realize that especially with the addition of a RED forum, the experience and work genre profile of DVX User members, and visitors, now includes many people with deep experience beyond the world of indie vilmmaking (to borrow a term from Evin). If RED has now limited its info distribution down to the RED web site, DVX User, and a few other sites, everyone from film and TV executives, down to new indies, is reading these boards. DVX User has now morphed into a new paradigm as a result.
Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com
I routinely work in digital cinema, other cine-style genres (commercials, music, etc.) and various EFP/ENG-style genres (sports, reality, documentaries, large events, etc.) - about 20 sub-genres of production. A typical workday may include portions of projects in several of those genres. As such, I'm sensitive to the needs of each genre and sub-genre, and the pride each group has in their area of labor. I believe the era of mono-genre workers is drawing to a close - that cross-genre workers are now the core of the workplace, and the future of it. With few exceptions, directors and shooters need to now be facile in both cine-style and EFP/ENG-style production to compete. As an artist I much prefer digital cinema work when the time and resources permit, and the project calls for it. That said, when I do EFP and ENG-style work I always weave my digital cinema production values into the project to give it flavor, quality, and interest - even if that can only involve intros, outros, and creative montages in an otherwise ENG-style production. I'm an invited judge for the National Emmy Awards each year. I've been pleased to see a metamorphous in the production values of many of the EFP/ENG-style genres towards more cinematic values - something I view as an end product of the convergence of cine-style and EFP/ENG-style production worlds. I've been waiting for a camera that can be quickly re-accessorized for use in the multiple genres I work in. I obviously understand that one camera system can't be great for all of them, no matter what you accessorize it with, but a range of "good to very good" for use in the sub-genres would save me time and expense of not having to own and continually rent multiple camera systems.
Features and digital cinema obviously draw attention, but the number of shooters that work exclusively in those genres (and sub-genres) is the tip of the iceberg compared to the combined number of shooters who regularly work in multiple genres of production - the 9/10ths of the berg under water. It's this large second group of shooters who are the largest potential users of RED One. Real low budget indies can't quite afford RED One yet, and longtime cinematographers will be slow to budge out of their comfort zone for various reasons. In witness of that, check out RED's reception to date on the cinematography boards. They will come around after RED ships - when up and coming shooters start taking jobs from them and producers/directors start requesting RED cameras.
I'm the rare highly-experienced, cross-genre guy who takes the time to hang out on indie/prosumer boards like DVX User. Why? Because through certain portions of my career I've had to absolutely maximize technology to get a high-end look from occasionally low-end budgets. My operational mantra has always been "Minimize overhead - maximize technology". It's on boards like DVX User that I can help keep my finger on the pulse of innovative maximization of affordable technology. Almost all the work I do as a producer/director/shooter is national and international, but being able to keep budgets in line is important no matter what size project I tackle.
To address the core subject of this thread, I feel that the price/performance ratio of RED One will be excellent if the camera performs up to its specifications. In short, I feel that RED has proposed a price lower than most of us ever anticipated. I also feel that its strength is its scalability and flexibility - start with a small core and accessorize outward for each project needs.
Accessorization for EFP/ENG style production? I've covered that at length in other threads, but a bare-bones field production kit can fit in a budget of $25k to $28k if you know what/how to buy.
TV executive reaction to RED? I produce/direct/shoot national and international programs that air on 12 different broadcast and cable networks. I speak with network executives weekly and sometimes daily. By now its no secret to them that I've reserved a RED One camera system. They ask me tons of questions about it, because they know I'll be using REDs in many of my series and one-off programs that I'll deliver to them. I don't get many negative comments. These people are pros - they understand equipment utility and workflows. In my experience, most of them readily understand that RED is a modular and flexible camera system that shoots a wide range of lens and image formats. Their feedback to me is more like "So you can quickly change out lenses and accessories, and move on to shooting in another manner? Very cool - so you could shoot for us on a movie of the week, then turn around quickly and shoot promos, sports, documentaries, etc.? Interesting...now tell me about this REDCINE workflow". I have to educate these guys about the new camera system I'll be using and its workflow. Once they understand it, I've experienced no major objections from them.
Summary
I think RED One is priced very reasonable and I anticipate RED accessories to follow suit. I think multi-genre directors/shooters represent the largest block of potential RED One users. I think RED One will eventually penetrate many motion media genres of production. And lastly - I think Barry Green is a hugely talented and knowledgeable professional who does an excellent job moderating DVX User and writing books. That said...I also think he needs to realize that especially with the addition of a RED forum, the experience and work genre profile of DVX User members, and visitors, now includes many people with deep experience beyond the world of indie vilmmaking (to borrow a term from Evin). If RED has now limited its info distribution down to the RED web site, DVX User, and a few other sites, everyone from film and TV executives, down to new indies, is reading these boards. DVX User has now morphed into a new paradigm as a result.
Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com
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filmmaker1977
Carbonite Member
if barry is a hvx institution, Gibby is 'the' Red institution strictly from the customers viewpoint or/and side.. a light of the Red Indy movement.. really run n gun.. really indy..Gibby said:
also because there are so many people with the same goal: (as graeme said) to get what he guesses 'that ENG / EFP should take on a more cinematic aesthetic' or someone posted: 'RED ONE, a high-performance 4K digital camera that promises to deliver the quality of 35mm film with the ease of a camcorder at a bargain prices.'
that's why i've been pushing him further.. for Red customers spokesman.. he has my vote, as well of many others.. really does..
and me thinks barry best stay out of this one..
edit
even because this time, it's our interest.. that's where we have our money..
peace to all :thumbup:
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