The New Canon EOS-1D X as far as video concern

SPZ said:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5149972341/canon-eos-1d-x-overview

These came directly from Canon's mount. Read the article starting on "In the name to be flagship".
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So it's a low compression MJPEG type format (for "editing") or a higher compression MPEG type H.264 format. Be interested to see how high the quality actually is on the MJPEG format. (The 355 mb/s is NOT for an MPEG-type, AVCHD codec.)

In general intraframe, discreet frame codecs are about 10X less efficient than MPEG Interframe codes, so I wouldn't get my hopes up. 355 mb/s sounds like too low a number for anything but 8-bit intraframe mjpeg. The compression sounds like about 5:1, which would yield excellent (but 8-bit) quality.
 
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Why the f is there still no headphone jack. How many generations before they get the basics right. What good is a mic if your unable to monitor it audibly?
 
steventimothy said:
So it's a low compression MJPEG type format (for "editing") or a higher compression MPEG type H.264 format. Be interested to see how high the quality actually is on the MJPEG format. (The 355 mb/s is NOT for an MPEG-type, AVCHD codec.)

In general intraframe, discreet frame codecs are about 10X less efficient than MPEG Interframe codes, so I wouldn't get my hopes up. 355 mb/s sounds like too low a number for anything but 8-bit intraframe mjpeg.
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Sorry to ask, but where did you get that mjpeg reference? I don't seem to find it...
 
SPZ said:
Sorry to ask, but where did you get that mjpeg reference? I don't seem to find it...
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It says in the dpreview article that there's an "All-I" format for high quality and editing at 6 min per 16 GB, and an IBP format that will take up about 1/12th of the space. (All-I means all I frames or an intraframe codec like Motion JPEG or wavelet.) Of course I'm assuming they're correct :)

There could be more settings in the IBP as well, the article implies that the compression is 1/12 of the maximum for All-I.
 
steventimothy said:
It says in the dpreview article that there's an "All-I" format for high quality and editing at 6 min per 16 GB, and an IBP format that will take up about 1/12th of the space. (All-I means all I frames or an intraframe codec like Motion JPEG or wavelet.) Of course I'm assuming they're correct :)

There could be more settings in the IBP as well, the article implies that the compression is 1/12 of the maximum for All-I.
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AVC Intra is an intraframe h264 codec, so is Apple Prores. If you compare the data rate described, it equals to prores 4:4:4 in Mbps therms... They say that the Intraframe codec is h264 based. In the camera menu, it says "less compression, ALL I mode".
 
steventimothy said:
So it's a low compression MJPEG type format (for "editing") or a higher compression MPEG type H.264 format. Be interested to see how high the quality actually is on the MJPEG format. (The 355 mb/s is NOT for an MPEG-type, AVCHD codec.)

In general intraframe, discreet frame codecs are about 10X less efficient than MPEG Interframe codes, so I wouldn't get my hopes up. 355 mb/s sounds like too low a number for anything but 8-bit intraframe mjpeg. The compression sounds like about 5:1, which would yield excellent (but 8-bit) quality.
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Panasonic's AVC-Intra codec is an H264 100mbs 10-bit 422 codec, and it's very very good...
 
SPZ said:
AVC Intra is an intraframe h264 codec, so is Apple Prores. If you compare the data rate described, it equals to prores 4:4:4 in Mbps therms... They say that the Intraframe codec is h264 based. In the camera menu, it says "less compression, ALL I mode".
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You're right, it's could be that... that would kick ass.

If it's 10-bit or higher AND if they've don't skip lines anymore AND if there's a headphone jack somewhere (I haven't seen any indication that there isn't one), then they've got a winner.

It's expensive enough not to to cannibalize their pro products as well.
 
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avc intra is owned and developed by panasonic so it is a little misleading to keep calling it that

this is a profile variant of h264 that allows for i-frames.

There is some interesting reading in wikipedia under h264, the profiles detail variations that go up to 14 bit.
 
If they've implemented 10bit 4:4:4 encoding, this camera suddenly became worth the money for a lot more people. Plus support for time code and linking several cameras together for TC synching.
 
maranfilms said:
Why the f is there still no headphone jack. How many generations before they get the basics right. What good is a mic if your unable to monitor it audibly?
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One of the first things I noticed. They even hand over better audio controls but yet leave use headphoneless...
 
Unless they've combined it with the A/V out. I too find it odd to have provided half-way decent audio control but not headphones.
 
No idea about the calculation about bit rates in video. This is what Canon says:
"[h=3]Compression[/h]The biggest change to the movie shooting is the ability to choose from two different compression methods — IPB or ALL-I — depending on your needs. The EOS-1D X still records movies using the H.264 codec but it is the compression type within this codec that has been changed.
When shooting movies, the frames that are captured are usually split into key frames or Intra-Frames and predicted frames. These Intra-frames are used as reference frames to help with compression.
The first type of compression available is IPB. The B in IPB stands for Bi-directional compression. With IPB differential compression is carried out by predicting the content of future frames, with reference to both previously captured frames and subsequent frames. Like the IPP compression method used in previous EOS DSLRs, some data is stored in a Group Of Pictures (GOP), meaning that frame-by-frame editing will result in lower image quality. When using IPB editing video in-camera to trim clips can only be done in one-second increments.
The second method of compression is designed for users working in high-end editing systems or those looking for the very highest quality. This compression is called ALL-I. ALL-I stands for ‘Intra-coded Frame' and it differs from IPB and IPP because all frames captured are treated as Intra-frames or key frames. Although each frame is still compressed, there is no further compression as each frame is seen as an individual image.
When filming with ALL-I, file sizes will be around three times larger than with IPB, and it is easier to edit to an individual frame without degrading the image quality. Despite the extra file size, ALL-I compressed footage actually requires less computer processing power than IPB or IPP and consequently will playback more smoothly on lower specification computers. This is because there is no rendering needed to extrapolate data from the GOPs used in IPP and IPB."


 
daveswan said:
OK, I've got it now, 16 GB/6 min = 355 mb/s

Allowing for roundings etc this could be the AVC-Ultra 400 codec in which case no way will it be 4:2:0, more like 4:4:4

If this is what Canon have done with a DSLR, whatinhell are they planning for their real video camera :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

Wishing I had the dosh,

Dave
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Wow, would need fast cards....
 
ok, so we have two different bits of information regarding codec and bitrate: first, dpreview says: "a 16Gb card will hold around 6 minutes of footage" which means 350Mbps http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5149972341/canon-eos-1d-x-overview - now, canon professional network says: "When filming with ALL-I, file sizes will be around three times larger than with IPB" http://wideopencamera.com/just-the-cut/canon-1d-x-what-the-compression/ - only one way to make those match: in the dpreview thing 16Gb actually means gigabits, IPB is 17Mbps, and all-I is 50Mbps; but who uses gigabits to talk about SD card capacity? and who is still using 2GB cards? if this is right, it means 8 bit, and probably 4:2:0 too; let's wait and see, but it could be very disappointing
 
NormanBates said:
ok, so we have two different bits of information regarding codec and bitrate: first, dpreview says: "a 16Gb card will hold around 6 minutes of footage" which means 350Mbps http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5149972341/canon-eos-1d-x-overview - now, canon professional network says: "When filming with ALL-I, file sizes will be around three times larger than with IPB" http://wideopencamera.com/just-the-cut/canon-1d-x-what-the-compression/ - only one way to make those match: in the dpreview thing 16Gb actually means gigabits, IPB is 17Mbps, and all-I is 50Mbps; but who uses gigabits to talk about SD card capacity? and who is still using 2GB cards? if this is right, it means 8 bit, and probably 4:2:0 too; let's wait and see, but it could be very disappointing
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If they are keeping the old 50 Mbps encoding for long top it means 150 Mbps, still higher than 10 bit AVC Intra, and similar to apple prores (non HQ) 4:2:2 , which is 147 Mbps.
 
Letzring said:
I have to wonder about that GPS-"universal time code" feature they mention in the press release. People have been tossing around this idea in theory for several years but I don't know of anyone who has ever really implemented it? I think that True onboard cruncheable SMPTE TC would make this camera worth it's MSRP.
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According to the article over at Cinema5D, they are implementing SMPTE TC in camera. The GPS stuff is more for still photos and tracking where the camera is taking picutures.
 
I don't think they are keeping the old 50Mbps encoding; that one was very inefficient (not any better than other 24Mbps codecs), and IIRC it was not IPB
 
Well, the 6min / 16 GB comes from Chuck Westfall, Canon USA's Pro Engineering and Solutions division's technical adviser. He also said IBP files are ca 1/12 the size of I-frame.

Put that together and you have (Assuming he meant gigabytes), ca 360 mbps I-frame and 30 mbps IPB. 30 mbps IBP H.264 looks quite reasonable for an "economy mode" 8-bit 4:2:0 video if you've got a 360 mbps I-frame for serious work. At that rate they could easily implement 10 bit 4:4:4

Does anyone use gigabits when describing memory cards? I don't think so.

So here's hoping. (Still can't afford it though)

Dave
 
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