The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

S

savethestars

Active member
Hi everyone,

I am ready to order the DVX100A, now that I am sold on 24p, but in all seriousness, do you think that a new camera to beat the DVX100A will come out in April, announced at the NAB show?

Whether it's the Canon GL3, or a new 24p Sony, or even a new camera by Panasonic that offers 24p on, say, a smaller cheaper, camera at a much better price or better low light capability than the DVX100A, I do not want to get a DVX100A only to find out that a month after I purchase it--a better choice has been released.

So, what do you think?

Is something better likely to come out? If so, what? By which manufacturer? How much better can it possibly get?

Thanks for your opinions!

I know all is speculation at this point, but some may have better radar than others for this sort of question, so please, go ahead and SPECULATE!!
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

with any technology as soon as you buy it theres sure to be something better in the coming months. ive found you just have to jump in at some point with something you like, otherwise youll be waiting a long time. theres already many cameras better than the DVX and the competitors are sure to catch up. if you like the camera and can get a good price on it, i say buy it. youll love it.
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

many cameras better than the dvx? Not in it's class and at this price point....
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

While small things may keep changing in each successive or new model.....one thing is sure......

[glow=red,2,300]DVX100 is an unrivalled, success camera[/glow]....(unrivalled....can I say till the arrival of an equally successful HD camera from any of the companies ::) ::)) I think the success and cpacity of DVX100 is one of the reasons for... say Sony to avoid the 24/25P field altogether.... I am sure they will come out with something new...may be more attractive BUT not something pitted against DVX100. I am not underestimating their capability, but the cost involved on the R&D of a new model that can overwhelm DVX100 would definitely not be a feasible option for them....or for anyone for that matter.

Even for the HD cameras, there seems to be a kind of excitement developing. However I think it would take good amount of time before the HD technology is established as a SAFE investment.... and HD displays and HD Tvs become a fashion. In a few recent discussions on this forum we have understood that some of the capabilites (24P/25P of DVX100) could only be visualised perfactly on Progressive display TVs. But everyone does not have a progressive tv. And how much time it would take everyone to have an HD TV.....is anybody's guess.

And afterall u cant have EVERYTHING in just one camera.....

just an opinion
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

And one more afterthought....

Had there been something 'substantial' left to be added in the DVX100 technology...... at the same price level..Pana would have already done that in the subsequent 100A version released last december. i do not expect them to lag behind....and let others creep in..... in an area where they are already strong.

One thing which however I would like to add in a newer version of dvx100 is the capacity to change lenses.....
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

NAB is just a month away ,you might as well wait it out . if we were in october or november i would say go for it. one thing to remember though is any new camera released at nab probably wont be available right away
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

You'll be kicking yourself if your dream camera is released at NAB & you can't get it because you bought a DVX a month before.

Wait until NAB. Rent cameras in the meantime if you need to. But my guess, from what I've heard through the grapevine, is that none of the major companies will be releasing a 24P camera to compete with the DVX. But wait and see.
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

who knows, maybe its the year of the XL2.. I mean they have been trying to give away the old ones for a few months now...
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

I knew that the DVXA was coming out prior to getting my 'Regular' DVX and asked my self the same questions of "Should I wait?"

I agree with an above post; you gotta jump in sometime or you'll be waiting your whole life for the RIGHT camera.

Ask yourself this: What significant change or option is going to possibly (and I say possibly) be made available that will combine price and value and function?

I mean really, is there a make or break scenario here? I think maybe you are just scared to make the purchase?
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

Keep in mind the law of diminishing returns. How much room for improvement is there on the DVX100A that Sony or Canon could top and stay price competive? There's no way either of them are going to release a cam with progressive capabilities, HD,  and interchangeable lenses for $3500. No, at best, they will match the DVX100A for the same price, or possibly higher (you can bet an XL2 won't be $3500, and while you'd be able to change lenses, it won't be HD, and it will sell for much more than the DVX100).

In the eyes of the average viewer of video/film based media, DVX100(A) footage, if the productions factors are right, are what they may be accustomed to seeing on TV. Yes, the experts may tell the difference, but those viewing your content will not. So what's the point in waiting around or spending more? I plan on getting my DVX100A this spring. Believe me, I'm not waiting for any others. In fact, if you get a new cam, you don't know if all of the kinks are worked out. The DVX100(A) is by now well established with a large and growing installed base. You now have many ways and opportunities to check out the quality of the DVX100A by the huge number of clips on the web. Even if this mystery cam is announced in April, it may not ship until October, and it may not be until December or January that you have enough evidence to determine whether it lives up to it's hype or stated specifications, or how it compares with the DVX100 in side by side shooting.  I conclude with my opening comment: it's the law of diminishing returns.
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

Long time lurker, first time poster.

It looks like I'll be getting my DVX100A at the end of the month. I'm not worried about NAB. Why not? Well, as always I'm excited to see new technologies and developments. However, the only thing I could seeing killing the DVX100A this year is a camera with 24p and native 16x9 chips. Interchangeable lenses would also be a plus.

Do I see a 24p camera with native 16x9 chips and interchangeable lenses coming out soon in this price range? No. Why not? Because my guess is that the R&D departments for Sony and Canon are concentrating on new HD technologies. Panasonic slipped in the 24p DV technology at a great time and I'm guessing that Sony and Canon were caught off guard by the success and both have most likely decided that trying to compete would be a step backward since prosumer HD is around the corner (well, somewhere lurking around a corner a few years from now).

I could be wrong, however. Perhaps Canon has a native 16x9 24p DV camera with interchangeable lenses coming out soon. I doubt it, though. If they did, I think they could cut into Panasonic's sales by announcing it more. Also, you'd think there would be more leaks and rumours. But then again, maybe Canon is quiet because they don't want to cut into their own current sales.
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

the issue with consumer hd technology , is that it basically bites.  its all going the way of mpg compression, and other such things which really make it a farce for any proffesional usage.  were not going to see and hd cams out with real pro capeabilities at the dvx pricepoint for a very long time.., so until you can buy a varicam for 3200.00 theres not much to look forward too.  more than likely though (and purportedly inevitable with s-spline pro, and wm9) we will see software technologies which can convert a nice sd signal like that of the dvx, to an excellent hd signal, which basically gives th dvx the one up over the sloppy hd cometitors in the end anyway.  the only advantage i could see coming from other cams would be things such as interchangeable lense systems, and better hardware ie: viewfinder/lcd and firmware for focusing, and safe areas- underscan and such, or improving lattitude, and gamma charachteristics. imho  in the end i really think it will be panasonic that actually pushes for these filmmaking attributes in future dvx versions or successors before any of the competitors who mainly focus on videomaking, rather than filmmaking with the cams at this pricepoint... anyway..just my thoughts out loud.
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

You have little to lose by waiting. NAB is only a month away, and it's where many major announcements get made.

I suspect strongly that you will never see a 24P DV competitor to the DVX. Any future significant development money spent on camcorders will be HDV. Panasonic will forever be king of the 24P DV camera.

I believe firmly that we will see no HDV announcement from Sony. JVC won't either, they're going to continue pushing the absurd HD1/HD10 cameras. So the big question mark is Canon. Will Canon announce an XL2? And if so, will it be DV or HDV? If it's DV, it absolutely won't have 16:9 chips or 24P, since Canon gets its XL chips from Panasonic, and there is no 16:9 24P chipset. If it's HDV, it won't have 24P. And if it's HDV, I predict that it won't be on the shelves available for sale this year.

Canon has little to lose by announcing a replacement as soon as possible. Nobody's buying into the XL1 anymore (as you can see by watching the traffic at their booths, and the fact that they've had to put a $500 rebate on it). If Canon were to announce an HDV XL2 tomorrow, would that slow down some potential DVX buyers? Probably.

Panasonic announced the DVX in April, but didn't deliver until October. If Canon announces in April, I don't expect to see anything from them until at least October. Panasonic got away with announcing so early because they had nothing to lose: they had no prosumer camera that was effectively competing with the PD150/XL1 at the time. Canon now has nothing to lose, their XL1 cannot compete with the DVX, so they will announce soon. But they will not deliver soon.

Will they announce an XL2 at NAB? That's the fifty-cent question. I'm starting to lean towards the idea that they WILL announce it, it'll be 1080/60i and 720/30p, with the same interchangeable lens mount, and a price tag of $6000.

But, Canon has never failed to disappoint me, so perhaps they'll do it again, and show up at NAB with big banners touting the XL1s...
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

the hilarious part is that even if they did make the xl1 hd. it would probably use the mpg compression, and still wouldnt match the resolution of the dvx for a film out, cause its not a progressive cam, and would still have to be deinterlaced losing half of its resolution, and dealing with the recompression from mpg. bwahahaahaha! but the horror story of it all, is that we would start getting a ton of posts named "xl2 vs dvx100-what to buy".. its bad enough already.
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

and who knows panasonic introduces a DVX100AA (or even DVX200) with interchangeable lenses......and lesser strobing on panning ;)
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

Ok. I am not going to speculate too much on this issue, since it seems that every angle is covered :D
Waiting for the next model is probably gonna make you wait forever. It will be like the guy who was going to buy a car when the next model came out...He never bought a car.
Having said this, I did have an interesting experience at NAB last year. I was contemplating getting Final Cut Pro for several months before I went to Las Vegas. Apple unveiled FCP 4 at NAB last year, and I am glad I did not buy it before I went! Saved me a lot of money..
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

[quote author=iamloser link=board=nws;num=1079354003;start=0#14 date=03/15/04 at 12:11:23]it would probably use the mpg  compression, and still wouldnt match the resolution of the dvx for a film out, cause its not a progressive cam, and would still have to be deinterlaced losing half of its resolution, and dealing with the recompression from mpg. bwahahaahaha![/quote]

If they make the XL2 HDV, it will unquestionably be MPG2. All HDV is MPG2. If it's 1440x1080i, then yes it'd be interlaced and would need to be de-interlaced. If it's 1280x720, then that's true progressive scan.

I can't agree about it not matching the DVX for resolution though. I've spent too much time with the HD1, and while I despise it in almost every possible way, I will say that it is *very* high resolution. Much, much, much higher than the DVX. I was able to come close to replicating the rez by using S-Spline Pro, certainly close enough that the DVX's other advantages clearly put it over the HD1, but... in as many ways as there are to knock the HD1, resolution isn't one of them. And I'm sure the Xl2/HDV would be the same way.

Recompression artifacts can't be avoided yet, as far as I know. I imagine someday they may have some intelligent editing software that will be able to break the video up by the GOP and only recompress the parts of the video that need it... right now, editing in Vegas, I always had to recompress the entire stream.

 but the horror story of it all, is that we would start getting a ton of posts named "xl2 vs dvx100-what to buy".. its bad enough already.
Click to expand...
Now THAT I'll agree with! ;)
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

Womble.  I've used it for a few years now.  It will edit any mpeg footage, frame accurate and only recompresses edited GOPs.  Works on footage shot with the JVC HD1/HD10 fine.  Prior to being introduce to Womble, I was an ardent believer that MPEG was largely uneditable -- This based on prior years of working MPEG for CD then DVD creation.

MPEG is editable now, even though its primary design is an output format.  Digital Video Cameras and MPEG, It's the future and will become more commonplace, especially because of HDV.  

-Rodger
 
Re: The New Camera that Beats the DVX100A

[quote author=Jarred Land link=board=nws;num=1079354003;start=0#7 date=03/15/04 at 08:19:26]who knows, maybe its the year of the XL2.. I mean they have been trying to give away the old ones for a few months now... [/quote]

yes thats the same here in Germany - you get the XL 1s so cheap that something must be around....
 
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