The new camera body from RED: Weapon
- Thread starter Gillvane
- Start date
I hope that's not an option that costs more money, having a rigged out camera with the word WEAPON on it might get people in trouble...
I'm currently a Red Epic Dragon Owner. Funny thing is, what got me into Red was the fact that I was (and still am) a DVXUSER for many years now, specially when Jarred and Barry would, passionately, together, discuss and find ways to help and make us "guerrilla", "out of the system" independent filmmakers improve and find the best technical solutions for our films.
dvxuser was actually what gave me the confidence to buy myself a Red Epic- I was interested on the One, but knew that, for my type of operation, it wouldn't work. And you know what, fellow DVXUSERS? It is the best camera I've ever owned.
Here are 3 videos, 3 different forms of expression, I did with it (and the occasional B cams like quadcopters and a bit of broadcast)
https://vimeo.com/112166475
https://vimeo.com/38020250
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVy2Z0lHd6c
Oh, and this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126716363@N06/
The most amazing thing with the Red is this, true convergence. All these pictures were shot at High frame rates. The looks are a personal choice.
As a dvxuser, my budget was, and is fairly limited. I had to do a personal loan to purchase the Epic. But it was still "affordable". So I bit the bullet. I can honestly say the Epic is a camera that really gives me the creative freedom I always wanted: Stills+ Motion, true convergence; Versatile form factor; fast frame rates; amazing dynamic range; fairly good low light (Dragon with Low Light Optimised OLPF is superior to Epic MX by one stop at least, more than enough for me). An Arri would cost me much, much more, not give me the stills and moving pictures convergence, the High frame rates in 4K+ resolutions. Does it have better skin tones, or dynamic range? Many respected professionals say yes, and I believe them. But having worked with other cameras throughout all these years, I can say that the Red Epic Dragon produces the best pictures I have ever seen, or been able to afford. It was worth every single penny. And what's more, they allow me to keep going by upgrading. No way can I fork another 30+K to purchase a camera as an indie filmmaker. But 9000 USD? I can stretch it.
The soul of Red is made by part of the soul of DVXUSER. Lets not forget about this!
As for the name of the camera, er... yes, well, order the Stealth option!
dvxuser was actually what gave me the confidence to buy myself a Red Epic- I was interested on the One, but knew that, for my type of operation, it wouldn't work. And you know what, fellow DVXUSERS? It is the best camera I've ever owned.
Here are 3 videos, 3 different forms of expression, I did with it (and the occasional B cams like quadcopters and a bit of broadcast)
https://vimeo.com/112166475
https://vimeo.com/38020250
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVy2Z0lHd6c
Oh, and this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126716363@N06/
The most amazing thing with the Red is this, true convergence. All these pictures were shot at High frame rates. The looks are a personal choice.
As a dvxuser, my budget was, and is fairly limited. I had to do a personal loan to purchase the Epic. But it was still "affordable". So I bit the bullet. I can honestly say the Epic is a camera that really gives me the creative freedom I always wanted: Stills+ Motion, true convergence; Versatile form factor; fast frame rates; amazing dynamic range; fairly good low light (Dragon with Low Light Optimised OLPF is superior to Epic MX by one stop at least, more than enough for me). An Arri would cost me much, much more, not give me the stills and moving pictures convergence, the High frame rates in 4K+ resolutions. Does it have better skin tones, or dynamic range? Many respected professionals say yes, and I believe them. But having worked with other cameras throughout all these years, I can say that the Red Epic Dragon produces the best pictures I have ever seen, or been able to afford. It was worth every single penny. And what's more, they allow me to keep going by upgrading. No way can I fork another 30+K to purchase a camera as an indie filmmaker. But 9000 USD? I can stretch it.
The soul of Red is made by part of the soul of DVXUSER. Lets not forget about this!
As for the name of the camera, er... yes, well, order the Stealth option!
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Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Generally speaking, the discussion about the naming convention of this company born over these boards is pointless, considering you're tasting the same soup prepared in the same kitchen in a way or another. Jarred's fingerprints, Jim Jannard's partner for this digital cinema camera project. Funny to say the least.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
Allowing you to keep going?
You have had your Dragon for about a year right? What have you been unable to do with it that you need to spend more money to fix?
Do reds really depreciate that bad that adding 9K to a year old camera is any different than selling a year old body and buying the new camera?
As an indie film maker do you really need what that extra 9K gets you? Does anyone know what you get for that?
I find it cultish that people are willing to plunk down money and stretch their finances for something no one even knows. Especially when the Dragon of a year ago makes an amazing image. Have users really exceeded their hardware in a year? I would love to look at these projects that just would have been that much better with future mystery hardware than the great camera in their current hands.
Cosimo Bullo
Veteran
I agree the name is a put off (and will singlehandedly help them sell less units), but RED... what can you say about these guys. They changed an industry forever, and I, for one, remain thankful.
I'm obviously not planning on going Weapon immediately, where do I say this? I upgraded to Dragon just Fall last year. As for depreciation, I have my Epic for 3 years now. In terms of image, if I was to keep on the Panasonic, Sony, etc. Path, I would certainly not be able to achieve the things I have throughout these years for that price point. And the camera didn't depreciate much, did it?
My Epic didn't stop making great pictures, as have the Red One, which is still being used in features and commercials worldwide. What is not to like in "obsolescence Obsolete"?
Anyway, to each his own!
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And thank god for that. I wouldn't own another Red product if it were free, literally.
Red is simply this: A poisonous company that markets and presents itself in an absolutely counter way to what real creatives need in their lives. Their forum is also the most poisonous place I have ever seen on the internet. Their products are nothing special anymore and, for the record, it was Kodak and Sony that changed the technical side of filmmaking so much and Canon is who forced pricing changes more than anyone; Red gets way too much credit for way too much due to the before mentioned marketing plan and ignorant newbies to filmmaking.
If you want to see how to run a company who makes PROFESSIONAL tools for PROFESSIONALS and ARTISTS, look at Arri. The Amira is truly the first "indie" camera to match needs with price and what matters most in a camera company, professionalism. Screw all the Chinese junk that you people keep buying and thus supporting, and screw Red, seriously.
Wow, completely different experience to yours, really. Reduser has been an excellent resource for workflow and I've actually met great people from it. Yes there are pricks and arrogant individuals there, as there are here, but mostly great and helpful people and community.
Why does Red presents itself "counter to what real creatives need in their lives"? I've seen stunning film and Photography work done on Red, real high end, quality material.
The credit Red gets is to bring down to the middle and small enterprise/ Production house/ Filmmaker High End Performance. Its true, the DSLR revolution were the ones that opened the gates to affordable interchangeable large sensor cameras. But always with limiting codecs. The Red One opened doors and disrupted the high end market. It marked the "end" of the Arri D20's, Sony F23/Genesis price point cameras.
As for "Professional", first, they are working with Top Directors and DP's to develop their products. However, they do listen and talk in a personal basis with the owner base. Something like what Panasonic used to do here with Jan. You have the software, hardware and even top management there (reduser) ready to help solve issues. I honestly don't know where you can get that anywhere else, specially if you're, like me, a non US citizen in a small town somewhere in South East Asia. I believe filmmakers from all around the World, with not so big or established marketplaces, feel the same.
I know for a fact around here (Asia), many businesses started, and many quality films were made thanks to investing and going to Red Cameras. You can easily spot these in red.com's shot on red section. And also photography. Certainly lots of Art was made with these cameras.
Yes, I'm not a big fan of their latest naming culture/marketing. But I am a big fan of their quality, their support, their work. And am a happy costumer. As I was with my Panasonic cameras. Or with my Canon cameras. Or Sony cameras. Arri? Can't afford it. Even if I could, the form factor, the resolution would limit the work I could do as an Indie. And I don't live of Rentals. ARRI is most certainly professional. Just that, for them, I probably don't "exist", or matter.
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bgundu
Veteran
I love my Dragon and I wont lie when I say I'm looking forward to WPN. Only because there are always improvements that can be made. This time round, it's a body upgrade, but it clearly appears to be a bit more than that. If you're already a Dragon owner, there's no rush to upgrade to WPN. And for the record, I would most likely order the stealth model.
This pretty much. Their system just prays on those who think they have to have the latest or they can’t do their jobs anymore. I also think that selling your Sony, Canon or Panasonic camera to buy the next following model would come in cheaper or the same as the extra $9000 and you have a real new camera after that.
To be honest I don’t see why anybody who is not a douche would want the word weapon engraved on the side of his camera. Maybe insecure types who like to wear those tshirts with fighting designs on them to try to look tough. Weapon is a horrible name for a tool which is supposed to be a creative tool instead of a destructive one.
hscully
Veteran
Someone pointed this out on RedUser so I will share it here. There are two meanings to the word weapon
1. A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage
2. A means of gaining an advantage or defending oneself in a conflict or contest
Maybe Red is suggesting it as a "weapon" against those who would choose a different platform, for reasons that could be mitigated by choosing the Red "Weapon" which will help users of the Red compete, or gain an advantage or enhance their position in competition with other platforms.
It may be disingenuous, or at least an abdication of imagination to ignore the less literate meaning in this case as a reason to be indignant, or even "combative" about the name. Especially since a lot of discussion on the forum revolves around the competitive advantages of various camera systems. Really, no one considers this?
1. A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage
2. A means of gaining an advantage or defending oneself in a conflict or contest
Maybe Red is suggesting it as a "weapon" against those who would choose a different platform, for reasons that could be mitigated by choosing the Red "Weapon" which will help users of the Red compete, or gain an advantage or enhance their position in competition with other platforms.
It may be disingenuous, or at least an abdication of imagination to ignore the less literate meaning in this case as a reason to be indignant, or even "combative" about the name. Especially since a lot of discussion on the forum revolves around the competitive advantages of various camera systems. Really, no one considers this?
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The irony here is if you are truly creative then you can use a weapon to create art. A weapon is merely a tool like any other. It is not destructive or creative. It just is, until someone uses it for a particular purpose.
http://www.wimp.com/artstreet/
ReelWorksMedia
Well-known member
This is funny. So...your on a professional set, working with professional people, making a high end professional media product...you have some of the best camera technology at your fingertips and connections in the business all around you...and your thinking to yourself....what a bunch of douche bags.
Thats comedic. Its a camera name...like any other camera name. It doesn't mean a thing and has nothing to do with the images the camera makes or the person using it.
I think as a whole, this name debate is very silly and pointless.
I can guarantee if you were on a set sitting right next to Chris Probst when he pulled out Weapon, you would not think he is a douche.
Graeme Meiklejohn
Member
Another point for RED'S marketing division.
They don't even need to release specs anymore to get the internet into a huff.
They don't even need to release specs anymore to get the internet into a huff.
I'd like to add my personal opinion on the name, weapon. It's a name. People with concerns can get Stealth. Also, a name.
If you're not intending to purchase either - what is there to complain about?
If you're not intending to purchase either - what is there to complain about?
Surf it Mike
Well-known member
Obviously VincienLA has forgotten the Arri of only eight years ago, a 535B camera system cost $500k ish ...a film mag alone cost $10,000. He also needs to brush up on camera history . Arri only got to where it is now by having to compete against the very name he so despises.
Ps. The "mini" is a perfect example of healthy competition against the Red DSMC system, who wins who looses ....don't much care because in the end we all win through better camera design & image fidelity .....may the competition continue .
Ps. The "mini" is a perfect example of healthy competition against the Red DSMC system, who wins who looses ....don't much care because in the end we all win through better camera design & image fidelity .....may the competition continue .
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