The medium of a Web Series

NVentive said:
There's plenty of people doing oh-so funny jibber japper already. We'll take a pass on that one.....
Click to expand...

Someone said, that comedy is actually harder to do. Lots of people do it, but do that do it arguably well is the question.

The rest of what you said rock tho nventie, with film you should expirement and push boundaries! Thats what drives me - not pedestrian copy cat works just to be "doing it"

Things dont always go viral unless you sneeze on a few people first, but ceraintly to get good at your craft you should keep creating everyday to stay sharp even when there is no dollars.
 
Q #1: Why does everyone think that web series' have to be 5 minute episodes?

Q #2: Why does everyone think that only melodrama bulls--t webseries about artists contemplating the meaning of life take effort to create, and that sitcoms that are actually funny, and which engage audiences on a regular basis, are just dumb laughs and money all around?

If I could make 1,000 people laugh consistently once a week, I'd be feeling pretty good about my skills as an artist.

-JMT
 
Q #1: Why does everyone think that web series' have to be 5 minute episodes?

I don't, mine will be 12 to 15 minute episodes. If I thought I could finance the additional expense I might even try TV length 22 minute episodes. People watch actual TV episodes on the net all the time. It's not the length. It's that the longer format you go, the closer the audience expects it to be to broadcast/cable production values, acting, writing, etc...

Q #2: Why does everyone think that only melodrama bulls--t webseries about artists contemplating the meaning of life take effort to create, and that sitcoms that are actually funny, and which engage audiences on a regular basis, are just dumb laughs and money all around?

They don't have to be, they just often are. All good "drama" contains comedy as well (and all good comedy contains drama). It's that a lot of "comedy" in general and web series in particular seem to require very limited skill and talent as a filmmaker. It seems to be "find some funny people, come up with some funny dialogue, stick them in front of a camera". That's all well and good and harder than I'm making it sound, but all the other elements of filmmaking like camera movement, production design, editing, music, etc... seem to get thrown aside. The entire product becomes about performance and dialogue. If that's what you like fine, it's just not what I'm into making.
 
"Things dont always go viral unless you sneeze on a few people first, but ceraintly to get good at your craft you should keep creating everyday to stay sharp even when there is no dollars."

That's really the whole point for me. The monetary goal is just to get to a self financing point on a web series. An opportunity to create content without draining my bank account.
 
I think comedy is best served short, sci-fi and action is best served long and melodrama not at all when it comes to the web!
 
What a timely subject.

While I await the results of one of my scripts which may be reworked into a webseries (horror/action genre) I think in time there will be two dominant genres in webseries content. One is animation, be it a 'Heavy Metal' or anime type of program, or something like Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner. Stuff like that. The other genre is the one that's taking a licking in recent times - and that is...the soap opera. Yes, you heard me right. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if there was something like that out there already.

Hopefully there's still room for horror...
 
I think people say they want web episodes to be 5 minutes because they believe themselves to be busier in their daily lives than they actually are. A few people had the (perhaps) legitimate concern about battery life on their mobile devices, but we found very few people who were actually watching regular web programs on these devices to begin with...although I suspect that will change. As for comedy, I do agree that shorts are a good delivery format. We have hosted several short film festivals over the years, from what we have seen from audiences, 8 minutes seems to be a sweet spot.
Our little 'Dreamer' foray has been a really interesting experiment for us, and I am looking forward to getting back to it in a couple of months. We originally started it as a means of learning more about workkflows, we have discovered that learning more about audiences is actually more fun. What people say they want isn't always what they actually want, I'm thinking that there might be a good script in here somewhere...
 
I think that the short web episodes have evolved for a few reason not the least of which is the fact that it is a good length to produce. I'm shooting for 5 - 8 minute episodes because that's what I can afford and I want as many shots at the revenue from ads on BlipTV as I can get. The web series, for worse I think, evolves from the world of You tube and amateur video. Kids with cameras doing goofy stuff for their friends. That's the soup from which we have to make something good. That's what it's been so far an so laws of conservation keep it that way. It's no wonder comedy has an edge. It's folks like us that will turn it around. I also think that streaming shows over devices such as Roku offer a way of getting folks to their TVs, where they can have a much better experience to see our well made narratives and that this will change the game finally.

I think that the attention span of the web viewer is being correctly assessed at 5 - 8 minutes, at least that's what my research has found.

Like short films, the short series has limits regarding structure. It's not possible to squeeze 3 strong acts into a short. It's not easy squeezing the narrative structure of an hour series episode into 5 minutes. I think it's a real challenge to do other than short form comedy on the web but it's a worthy challenge and I think that it will pay off. I'm soon to find out!
 
hscully said:
I think that the short web episodes have evolved for a few reason not the least of which is the fact that it is a good length to produce. I'm shooting for 5 - 8 minute episodes because that's what I can afford and I want as many shots at the revenue from ads on BlipTV as I can get. The web series, for worse I think, evolves from the world of You tube and amateur video. Kids with cameras doing goofy stuff for their friends. That's the soup from which we have to make something good. That's what it's been so far an so laws of conservation keep it that way. It's no wonder comedy has an edge. It's folks like us that will turn it around. I also think that streaming shows over devices such as Roku offer a way of getting folks to their TVs, where they can have a much better experience to see our well made narratives and that this will change the game finally.

I think that the attention span of the web viewer is being correctly assessed at 5 - 8 minutes, at least that's what my research has found.

Like short films, the short series has limits regarding structure. It's not possible to squeeze 3 strong acts into a short. It's not easy squeezing the narrative structure of an hour series episode into 5 minutes. I think it's a real challenge to do other than short form comedy on the web but it's a worthy challenge and I think that it will pay off. I'm soon to find out!
Click to expand...

I keep up with 3 network sitcoms, an HBO sitcom and a few HBO dramas, all on the internet. I also have watched probably around 14-15 seasons worth of different half-hour comedy shows on Netflix Instant (including AD, HIMYM, Archer, Scrubs -- and recently I'm starting in on Louie and The League). I have cable downstairs, but I never use it -- if I can't find it online, I'll wait till I can (this could be a problem when Mad Men returns, though. :( )

My biggest problem with The Guild, and the reason I've never gotten past 5 or 6 episodes is that I can't stand how short they are. Netflix strings them all together with no bumpers, so the show loses its entire comedic structure. So I tried watching on TG's website, where you can actually watch the episodes individually. The problem there is that it's annoying having to watch tons of different 5-minute videos when I've got 22m sitcoms I can watch elsewhere. Also, the structure itself is difficult to follow -- it's short and restrictive, making bits and gags the most that can ever really be accomplished. It's like vignettes of a stand-up show.

I'm not saying the show doesn't work -- lots of people love it, so they must be doing something right -- but if a half-hour sitcom like The League or Workaholics was a web series, it would do great, I think. Hell, even Louie could perform as a web series, LCK has already proven he has an audience, and the show is on the cheap but of good enough quality to do really well on the web.

I also think, when it comes to dramas, your best bet is longer. Maybe 10-20m instead of 42m, but definitely not 5-8. I think Gonzo has a good plan with 12-15m episodes, that seems like a good range.

-JMT
 
DarrenJSeeley said:
What a timely subject.

While I await the results of one of my scripts which may be reworked into a webseries (horror/action genre) I think in time there will be two dominant genres in webseries content. One is animation, be it a 'Heavy Metal' or anime type of program, or something like Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner. Stuff like that. The other genre is the one that's taking a licking in recent times - and that is...the soap opera. Yes, you heard me right. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if there was something like that out there already.

Hopefully there's still room for horror...
Click to expand...

Animated shorts seem to get a much higher average number of views than live-action on the web. Wonder if that would translate to web series as well...
 
I think everybody is still trying to figure the whole thing out. The "rules" are still being written.
We may fail miserably, who knows. In the end like most things it comes back to the quality of the content. If we make something really really good it will probably succeed. If we don't it will likely fail.
 
my theory is that on a smaller screen (not everyone rocks full screen 30" edit monitors) you need more than stiff talking heads, you need color, punch and action. It's kind dull watching long monolouges. Even the successful youtube talking heads developed a edit style to help alleviate that, but their success is very different than a narrative series (they comment usually on existing news, trends and memes and inject themselves into the debate)

The guild has the unique factor that it was the first to do a series targeted at a niche group that is online all day, but most mainstream entertainment companies thought the subject matter wasnt worth their time. (of course the gaming industry is a billion dollar industry with slavish adherents) so it makes sense on every level - but gaming isn't sexy to most A type execs.

I would argue - hypothetically that every web series is *GREAT* , but can it find it's audience? That's the usual stop gap of challenge (btw - of course some suxors)
 
Michael Traven said:
Animated shorts seem to get a much higher average number of views than live-action on the web. Wonder if that would translate to web series as well...
Click to expand...

It's funny you should say that. I am a director/animator, and the web series I want to make will have both live-action and animation. It deals with some kids and their struggle in an alternate cartoon universe. I've been going back and forth about making this into a web series or a short film, but I think having the animation will definitely help me if I choose the web series route.
 
Michael Traven said:
I'm not saying the show doesn't work -- lots of people love it, so they must be doing something right
Click to expand...

Just go on YouTube and look at some of the comments for tremendously bad attempts at a web series and you'll realize that a lot of the "masses" simply have no taste at all.

Not to say The Guild is a terrible show...I have no idea. But that a group of people liking it means nothing.
 
I think (hope) H.P. Lovecraft fans (who are pretty legion) will go crazy for our web series, if we can make it on the production values level we want.
 
Gary Huff said:
Are you doing period or updating to modern day?
Click to expand...

Actually, and I have done this in all my movies, there is some time juxtaposition going on. With some oddly out of place things. The "Hero" is a total Luddite. he types on a typewriter, drives a car from the 1960's, uses a film camera, etc... While the people around him have computers and cell phones. There are scenes in the main bad guys "lair" that could be the 1930's, yet he might walk down the street and it's today. It has to be done carefully, but I like the effect.
 
Gary Huff said:
Just go on YouTube and look at some of the comments for tremendously bad attempts at a web series and you'll realize that a lot of the "masses" simply have no taste at all.

Not to say The Guild is a terrible show...I have no idea. But that a group of people liking it means nothing.
Click to expand...

Agreed. As a side-note, I actually really like the humor of the show, and Felicia Day makes a really charming lead; if the show was a 22m sitcom, I'd probably spend an hour or two a day on it. But the last 5m episodic I was able to get into was The Clone Wars episodes that ran at the tail end of the 7:30 block on Cartoon Network when I was like 13 or 14. Which, ironically, is a way that I could see a show like The Guild working: as a tag at the end or beginning of a longer show, similar to the shorts that Pixar tags on their films.

-JMT
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
Actually, and I have done this in all my movies, there is some time juxtaposition going on. With some oddly out of place things. The "Hero" is a total Luddite. he types on a typewriter, drives a car from the 1960's, uses a film camera, etc... While the people around him have computers and cell phones. There are scenes in the main bad guys "lair" that could be the 1930's, yet he might walk down the street and it's today. It has to be done carefully, but I like the effect.
Click to expand...

That sounds pretty interesting. If you get it right, it would definitely be interesting to watch.

-JMT
 
Michael Traven said:
Animated shorts seem to get a much higher average number of views than live-action on the web. Wonder if that would translate to web series as well...
Click to expand...

gonzo_entertainment said:
Actually, and I have done this in all my movies, there is some time juxtaposition going on. With some oddly out of place things. The "Hero" is a total Luddite. he types on a typewriter, drives a car from the 1960's, uses a film camera, etc... While the people around him have computers and cell phones. There are scenes in the main bad guys "lair" that could be the 1930's, yet he might walk down the street and it's today. It has to be done carefully, but I like the effect.
Click to expand...


Make sure the audience knows what you are going for! If you have him using typewriters with other people using computers it may be misinterpreted as a mistake which would be very bad.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top