The long road ahead and the chance to help a n00b....

D

duke278

New member
The screenplay is written. The storyboards are done. All the ideas are crammed up in there and finally I've got the money to start shooting.

I'm not a filmmaker by any stretch of the imagination but I'm hoping to change that over the next few years. First, I need something to film this movie on and after what seems like weeks and weeks of browsing I've decided on the AF101. I'm set on the AF101 and this party of my future buy is pretty much non negotiable. What I am open to is ideas for pretty much all my other kit.

I was going to slap a ninja onto the 101 - any comments on this would be appreciated. I read somewhere that a firmware upgrade is still needed to unless the true potential.

When it comes to what is going to sit on the front then I really am a little perplexed, even after the extensive reading I've done. There literally are thousands of options. To give you a little background, before start filming the movie I will be getting to know the camera by creating a few short stunt biking videos for some friends, who happen to be pros. (I have a bunch of experience making action clips for first person shooters so should be able to adapt to this environment a little easier than working with actors) Then I'll film a short, then movie onto the guerilla production. I also want to purchase a DSLR, as my point and shoot just isn't going to be cut out for the stills I require. So what would peoples suggestions on a DSLR be? I was thinking possibly a D5 mkii, that could potentially be used as a 2nd and backup, and it appears to be a great stand alone stills..... or is it a bit overkill and should I be aiming at 550D (or the Nikon equivalents).

I can pick up a D5 with a EF 25-70mm f/2.8 L for £2100.....which is a great price. Then I could use this lens with the AF101 also. Then maybes add in a couple of primes and I'd have a set and ready to shoot something that could easily hold its ground if distributed on dvd/blu ray, and not look terrible if by some miracle gets flung up on the big screen. I'm fully open for suggestions and would really appreciate the help.

At the moment I dont want to go out, sell the Porsche and buy a set of cine primes but I can compromise. But then again would it be better to spend 2k on lenses, and a few k on lighting and accesories, or do amazing lenses really make the difference. Suggestions on stuff to make my life easier would help also.

Appreciate the help and any flaming of the n00b will also be kindly accepted as long as there is some advice in there somewhere. Thanks
 
Not to flame but if you do a little more reading in this forum you'll find all manner of recommended kit for the AF100. If you then have a specific question we're happy to help. Personally I'd suggest renting a full AF101 from a local production house and shooting with it for a weekend so you understand how it is all supposed to work before you spend a ton of money on something you haven't even had a test drive on yet.

I'd also consider hiring a DP with this camera instead of buying a full package. You've already said you're a screenwriter/director type with no camera experience. Why learn multiple jobs you don't really need to know to make a movie. Get some partners who can help you. Movies are a collaborative effort, not a one-man band.

Noah
 
Noahk. Great advice. I second that.

But if your hearts set on buying and learning to shoot. I wouldn't consider starting a budgeted film until you have 10 (minimal) shorts under your belt. When you wrap your nineth short, look back, and see how much you have grown as a filmmaker you will then realize this was excellent advice. good luck
 
A little flame is better than nothing. I am terrible for turning what was supposed to be a two line post into a few paragraphs. I have been snooping around the forums now for about 2 weeks reading and reading and reading. Coming to the point of deciding on the AF101 seemed like a defining moment for me. The reason I posted such an open question was because I was wondering what you guys who know what you are talking about think about the package as a whole I was proposing. Which was pretty much AF101, D5, 25-70mm f/2.8 L and a couple of primes, and a ninja.

I've thought about the option of renting and because of the way I will be shooting this movie over a period of time I dont think it would be best. Pretty much I want to get to know the camera inside out as this is all just a learning process for me. I suppose its also that heart set on something argument. This is really going to just be an expensive hobby of mine. However, renting the camera for a bike shoot for a weekend might be a good call... I could end up hating it!

Once the time comes I will bring more people onboard, currently just me and two others. Also I dont know what I'm good at, am I actually a screenwriter or is cinematography what I should be focusing on? I'm an engineer by trade, but fulfil a project managers position. I'm just trying to find my place in an industry I'm growing to love.

Thanks for the 'flame' :P
 
My thoughts, and sorry if I'm blunt... You have a decision to make. If you are serious about your film, forget about buying gear, hire an experienced crew and make it right! On the other hand, if all you want out of this exercise is an expensive hobby to throw money at, then have at it. Better to spend your money on film gear than heroin.

Good luck!

Dave
 
Duke, If you are set on purchasing, i'd recommend you go with either a Nikon or a Pentax DSLR and accompanying lenses. Right now there is not a great solution for attaching canon lenses to the af100. Nikon and pentax lenses both have high quality micro 4/3 adapters available right now.
 
Yeah honestly I can't tell you how many eBay auctions I've seen coming from filmmakers who bought a bunch of gear to shoot a feature that never came together. So take it slow so you don't bankrupt yourself. Start with a lower priced DSLR and a couple of lenses. Those can transfer over to the AF101. Shoot a couple of shorts or just anything- just goof off. You might find after a day you hate shooting video and have no interest in making a feature. Just saved you $10K.... :)

Noah
 
To answer the OP's question, it might make sense to buy gear, it might not. Everything depends on how committed you are to getting into production. As others have suggested, you could always work with others, by paying people or seeking out friends for a hobby. That is most definitely a way to do it. Production and post-production take a long time for someone to develop skills and a workflow. You will spend hours upon hours being overworked to learn this stuff. That said, it is a rewarding activity for many people. A lot of this depends on your financial situation. Most people spend even longer getting far enough into this to start making money with their gear--paid jobs or successful projects. It would be risky to go into debt over something that is statistically likely to lose money.

A DSLR is a more economic option, and they look really good. You would need to buy an external recorder and learn how to sync audio. If you have the money to blow, the AF100 is a nice camera. As others have suggested, renting is a good way to at least test things out. You might want to consider renting lights when you need them instead of buying; lights tend to go out for a pretty decent rate. I wouldn't blow my budget on lenses alone in any case. Don't forget audio. You need a fair amount of microphones. How are you going to cut the footage? Doing a feature in HD is intensive and you need a nice system with a lot of hard drive space--probably external. You are going to need a decent tripod with a fluid head. You might end up wanting more things too like camera sliders, homemade dolly's, etc.
 
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Yeah I recently splurged on some audio gear that has made a huge difference in my basic production kit. Top-notch audio makes solid cinematography 'look' even better.

Noah
 
Audio is definitely a crucial element of narrative film, and it is very important in documentary too. A lot of lenses without some decent microphones are not going to go very far!
 
I think if you're going to make this feature to get some good experience and it's a very low budget film you can afford without losing your shirt then go for it. I can't imagine shooting my first project on an AF100 not having any experience though...wow. I picked up on the HVX200 when it first came out in a matter of weeks (and with the help of Barry's DVD which I watched like 20 times), but this is a completely new animal IMO. Good luck either way, but if this is something with a serious budget I'd put the money toward crew and a great DP and focus on directing/writing. That alone is a beast in itself let alone trying to learn new equipment on set during the actual shoot.
 
Not to be redundant, but if you don't have much camera experience, the AF might be too much camera for you. I can't tell you how many auctions I saw right after the camera came out where someone bought it out of excitement, and then put it up for sale a week later because they were in way over their head.

Like the others said, a DSLR would be much more cost-effective and has a smoother learning curve than something like the AF, and the same goes for the HVX200 or HMC 150. The AF100 is an awesome camera, but if you're starting at square one with knowledge of cinematography, you can get overwhelmed really quickly by the sheer amount of options available to you - not to mention the extra costs associated with getting rails, matte boxes, filters, etc.

If you're pouring your own hard-earned money into the film and expecting a return on it, shooting while still learning basic skills isn't gonna cut it. Make sure you're committed to putting a LOT of time in to not only learn the camera, but also deal with your workflow in post before committing. Otherwise, definitely hire a DP, rent a camera (sometimes these two things come together!), and let them make the pretty pictures for you while you sip lemonade! :)

Whatever you decide, good luck and happy shooting!
 
If your production is still a way off, why not start with a panasonic Gh2. The kit lens is directly compatible and any adaptors for manual lenses will also move forward. The main learning curve for this class of camera is the lenses, composing with primes and pulling focus. You can use this for location scouting, casting sessions, etc. knowing that the look will be close to what you can achieve with the af-100. You may also find that this is all you need in terms of a camera to own, and then hook up with and an Af-100 operator for the main shoot or rent for select days. Think of it in film terms when many filmmakers owned a bolex for grabbing pick-ups and exteriors on their own schedule, but hired an Arri for sync sound days.
 
This may be a longer answer than you want, but it's a recent experience I had.

A buddy told me that he and a partner wanted to "get into making movies." I hear that kind of thing pretty often, and so I warned him that it could be a huge waste of time if he went in with an open checkbook and no experience. Here's what I suggested he do instead:

- Find a DP/Camera Op who you trust, whose work you like, that already has most of the necessary gear
- Collaborate with that person on a project, where you pick up the equipment rentals and misc production expenses,
and he/she takes care of building the crew
- Find a Director-type who will plan it, script it, storyboard it, and build the shot lists
- Shoot it, knowing full-well that it might be something good, or may just be an experiment

I recently did this for a project called "Brothers Barbarian." The Producer (the buddy who approached me) knew a bunch of people within the fantasy community, called in some favors, and found someone who would toss several thousand dollars into renting an old inn and hotel rooms for the cast & crew. I knew crew people, and so I called in some markers with my crew friends, making sure they knew in advance that it was going to be a "just for fun, but as serious as we can make it" project, where hotel rooms & meals would be the only compensation. It was a micro-budget project, with everyone involved knowing that the contacts & friends they made would be one of the most imporant elements.

When I arrived on-location the night before we started shooting, I discovered that we had costumes for 50-60 medieval characters, Orc prosthetics, airbrush makeup stations, period combat gear (swords, suits of armor, and so on), and even all the flatware & cups for a tavern setting. The Producer, who knew nothing about cameras & lights and equipment, had done all the things that the DC/Camera types hate doing, and frequently don't do well. The Director (me), had been freed up to focus on the pre-planning, storyboarding, working with the AD & the DP to build shot lists, and so on.

In five shooting days we shot 42.5 pages of properly-formatted script for six 6-7 minute webisodes. We went two hours over schedule, ending at midnight instead of 10:00PM like I'd planned. The organization and cooperation from everyone on-location was such that the actors, crew, and all the support people were asking me "When do we shoot season 2?" before we were fully packed up and ready to go.

We're now in post-production, and my Producer buddy and his friend who wanted to "get into making movies" feel like they've done so, and their total outlay is under $10K. They don't own any equipment, but instead know a bunch of competent crew people who DO own the equipment, and who will gladly collaborate with them in the future (with the understanding that future things will need to have *some* kind of budget for paying the crew). They feel (and I agree with them) that they spent their money very wisely, as they would have pumped huge amounts of cash into buying gear otherwise, they wouldn't have known how to use it, and all the things that they focused on this time would have gone miserably undone.

If you want to be a DP/Camera Op, then buying an AF-100 may be a good move. Otherwise, figure out the role you really want to play, and then go find someone who is passionate about being behind the camera, and learning all the ins and outs. Everyone benefits from focusing on their strengths. - Tim
 
WOW! First off guys, thanks for the great response. I appreciate what everyone has said and giving a forum first timer this much feedback on what was quite frankly quite a bone question is amazing.

I've tried to take something from what everyone has said and in response I've changed my plan slightly; which I suppose was the original question... was the kit I was thinking of buying a good idea?

NoahK: You said movies are a collaborative effort and not a one-man band. I couldn't agree more. I'm great at my day job because of the people I have around me, together we make a fabulous team. However, I think the fact that I have sampled all the jobs of the people I am in charge of I can appreciate their job, and therefore themselves, better. Ultimately making me a better manager and creating a team spirit and team they want to work for.... and one that delivers!

You also said to start off with a DSLR and take it slow and Maranfilms you said I should be looking at a bunch of shorts and not just a couple. Blackcat suggested that I don't laden myself with debt (not that I planned on doing that), and start off slow and not forget audio and all the other stuff that I need. NoahK you also mentioned the importance of audio.

FilmBoy77, you stated that doing most things myself would be a great experience, something that I believe in aswell.....and then Jon Hout said that the AF101 might be a little too much for a a near total cinematography n00b, which I am. TimTheFoolMan, your story is a very interesting read, however I don't just want to be involved in movies, I am engrossed by them and want to go deeper. At a low budget scale I want to see what is involved at all levels.

So...... I hear you ask...... what did this little n00b actually do? Well I took the advice of the majority and I went out and purchased a 5dmkii, with a nice 24-70mm f/2.8 and a cheap 50mm f/1.8, and a 32GB CF. I got a great deal on them, fabulous tbh. A good friend of mine also has a gorgeous L series collection so I think he is quickly going to become my best friend :P So where does this leave me. Well I still have a nice chunk of money burning a hole in my pocket....but unlike an AF101 purchase, I also have a very useable tool if I decide I need to stick to the screenwriting and directing rather than anything else (I've been meaning to get myself a decent DSLR for years now!)

But what I do have now is the tool to go out and capture and test. I haven't put the thing down since I bought it...literally haven't, tripod buy at lunchtime tomorrow. I've also managed to build up a nice little shopping list of stuff I need to acquire before I start shooting my trail bikes footage early next month as suggested by a few on here. Then I suppose I just need to go out and shoot. Once I've got some experience then I'll decide whether that AF101 needs buying or not. Then I'll shoot a cheap ass feature on it with a minimal crew and for a very low budget, hopefully finding where my true passion lies. After that.... possibly something with a half decent budget and then as suggested by many on this thread it will be time to bring in the real men and a crew.

So a big thank you and now I'm going to relocate to the 5d forum; although I plan on seeing you in a few months time, and next time hopefully I'll have 'all the gear and a little bit of an idea'

Cheers!!

Duke278
 
well don't feel like you "have" to spend money just because you have some left over lol...nothing wrong with having money in the bank these days. good luck in whatever you decide to do going forward.
 
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