The Loner - New Version

Kirk Gillock

Kirk Gillock

Rebel with a cause
Some of you might remember this short film. Yes, I'm beating a dead horse, but some changes needed to be made (2-3 new shots, color correction, improved audio, etc). Nobody gives better constructive criticism than DVXuser members, so let me have it!

The Loner - 17mb:
http://www.laundryday.com/videos/the-loner/the-loner_lg.mov

The Loner - 8mb:
http://www.laundryday.com/videos/the-loner/the-loner_sm.mov

The Loner - 10mb (Windows Media):
http://www.laundryday.com/videos/the-loner/the-loner_md.wmv
Please say whether this was your first time viewing it or if you saw the original version and think this is worse or better. Thanks!

PK
 
Re: Short Film - New Version (5 min)

Re: Short Film - New Version (5 min)

Definitely worth the extra time you spent on it!

The audience at AtomFilms is going to eat this up (This is better than 99% of the stuff there!)...don't forget Triggerstreet also.

Let us know when its online there.
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

PK,so how long did it take you to upload those huge ass files? All I got to say is that however long it took, its well worth it. This short got me smiling the whole entire time which I normally don't do. I like the changes. "I decieded to make her a mix cd". ;D I actually did that one time to this girl I once liked. PK, don't you ever quite making films! You have talent my friend! :)
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Thanks a lot ExFilm.

Spider, everytime I'd make one minor change it would take 8 hours of rendering, compressing, and uploading. AGHHH!! I have uploaded 6 different versions in the last 4 days. A total of 20 hours of uploading. This is the last version. I'm tired of looking at it.
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

I usually bail on most of these, but this one held my attention.
Few things IMO- The lighting in the apartment did not seem as good as the rest of the shots. Which seemed odd since I would think that would have been the easiest to control. I also would have moved the camera (Dolly, Pan) for a few shots. I felt there were a few scenes that justified movement to add some visual emotion.
I got the sense you're a one man band and if so- very well done indeed!
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Bokes - Thanks and I agree. A pan or zoom would be nice. But alas, that is a luxury I can not afford.  :'(  Except for my online buddies at DVXuser, I am 100% alone.  No english speaking actors. No crew. No money. No woman, no cry.

Then again, if the camera moved, the character (and audience) would not feel the loneliness as much.  This way it's like a voyeuristic static shot into his private life. ...Hmmm That's one way to rationalize poor cinematography. ;D
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

love it man! i like director's cuts as well ;D
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

I actually preferred the one you won the December contest with. Did you re-record the voice-overs? The original I thought flowed better and I felt more for your loner character. In this new one, to me, it seemed rushed.

Just my opinion, but I really like the original ;D
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

[quote author=P.K. Gillock link=board=Clips;num=1106213002;start=0#5 date=01/20/05 at 05:48:57]Except for my online buddies at DVXuser, I am 100% alone.  No english speaking actors. [/quote]

Hey, I watched The Legend of Suriyothai. Don't much mind if the actors don't speak english. ;D

Dan
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

zMike - Thanks. The audio is the same as the original. The only thing different is the absence of an annoying mic hiss. (Running it through Adobe Audtion to remove the hiss.) The edits are basically in the same place as before, shot for shot, because I used the same audio track (sound fx and VO) and timeline from the original.

The updates are:
1) Added establishing shot of the apartment building.
2) Removed a white cup from a seat in a theater shot.
3) Fixed a continuity problem in a hallway shot (d'oh!).
4) Cleaned up a 2 frame tape glitch with After Effects.
5) Reshot a hallway scene - added boxes, a tv, and minor theft.
6) Took out the DVXuser website shot (Sorry guys).
7) Color corrected, although it's still bad.

I think that's it. Hope these are improvements. Did anyone else notice the audio hiss before?
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Hmm that's interesting. I just watched the original and the new version back to back and still feel that the original is paced better and although I like the stealing in the hallway scene, prefered the original one for some reason.

Maybe it's just that I'm used to the original and am attatched to it. I'd be interested to see if anyone else likes the original better aswell.
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

P.K., I tend to agree that the new version is inferior to the original. Sorry for the brutal honesty...I know what it's like to spend a lot of time on a re-edit only to discover that it's lost something along the way.

I'm not sure what the deal is with your establishing apartment shot, "you" look fake standing outside by the rail...it's either a CG you or a cardboard cutout, I can't be sure but it is not convincing. I don't see the need at all for the establishing shot because you have created an atmosphere of intimacy and this somehow breaks that rhythm.

The new hallway shots just added unnecessary detail for me and was more confusing than the simplicity of the original. You don't have to bang people over the head with detail, some of the funnier stuff comes from peoples' imaginations rather than being acted out in minute detail on the screen.

I think you should make up a fake porno site (something that's more like a lampoon than explicit) for your "work".

Anyway, to sum it up:

1. The rhythm of the entire piece has been compromised slightly.
2. Too much detail for such a simple and powerful story. Less is more.

That's all.
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Honesty hurts, but I love it!  ;)

I agree 100%, less is more.  I never felt as though I was adding "more". Just enhancing and correcting some mistakes. And I never thought these minor changes would effect the overall piece so much. Dang it!

You're right. The apartment zoom is not real (d'oh!). I super-imposed myself onto the balcony. I didn't like the original shot of the loner on the bed. We all sit and watch tv, big deal. I wanted something more powerful since this is the line of the VO that is repeated at the end. Also, I felt it was odd to cut from him on bed to him on the balcony. Since the loner is protective of his territory, an establishig shot of him surveying his domain would be a good introduction to his castle. Maybe not. Do you have any suggestions other than him on bed watching tv? What if it wasn't a zoom, but rather a static shot of me on the balcony? Maybe the zoom is what ruins it.

The new hallway shot was added because, if someone is moving in, they're going to have boxes and stuff during the transition. And that's something this psychotic loner would notice and not react kindly too (insert theft - which I thought was sort of charlie chaplin, mr. bean, kind of move).  What he steals is a mini-globe, which is in the background of the two scenes, when he's catching the coins. The VO is talking about previous tenants (the globe, subliminaly, represents the last tenant). On the original he just had 3 stacks of coins and talks about 3 previous tenants, who he may have killed, now there's an icon for the tenant he let go. I don't think anyone will notice. It's more for me.

Thanks for the opinions. Maybe I can find a happy medium between the two versions.

More comments would really be appreciated.
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Basically my rule is this: If you have to explain a bunch of things, then you need to get rid of them.

For me, when I saw the first one, I didn't need any explanation. The missing parts were made up in my mind naturally. I didn't feel like anything was left unexplained. Of course, having already seen the original, I can't be completely objective but I hadn't watched your original for a while and just watched the new one with fresh eyes and the issues I mentioned came to mind right away.

The theft part takes away from the character for me somewhat. I liked believing the apparent innocence of him without that shot. It distracted from the purity in my mind.

I don't think it is odd at all to cut from the bed to the balcony. Perhaps you could add another mundane type of shot in there and just cut to the various things the character gets up to. You are basically showing his life in an accelerated fashion through a quick cut montage. It's a very common technique in movies.
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

That makes sense. I didn't think about the innocence of the character. I thought it would be foreshadowing into his evil nature. So the boxes and tv are ok, it's the stealing that ruins the shot? Because I shot two versions (1 with stealing and 1 without). It's an easy fix.

Thanks for the shot suggestions disjecta. I originally had him laying on the floor and trying to catch M&M's in his mouth. Maybe I'l go back to that.

Ok, it's 4am and I'm about to shoot a new scene for the short. Time to pull the Laundry Day shirt from the dirty clothes pile (again). That shirt smells REALLY bad. I think you can actually see the fumes on the video. I'll upload a new version in a few hours.
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

[quote author=P.K. Gillock link=board=Clips;num=1106213002;start=0#12 date=01/20/05 at 12:26:19]I didn't like the original shot of the loner on the bed. We all sit and watch tv, big deal. I wanted something more powerful since this is the line of the VO that is repeated at the end. Also, I felt it was odd to cut from him on bed to him on the balcony. Since the loner is protective of his territory, an establishig shot of him surveying his domain would be a good introduction to his castle. Maybe not.[/quote]
I haven't had the time to download and look at the new version, but sure loved the original.

As for the quote above, I can tell you, as someone who has spent a great deal of professional life on the road, there is nothing more expressive of loneliness than a single person on a bed watching TV. If it's a hotel room, it's even more powerful.

Looking forward to seeing the new version (hopefully tonight).

Jerry
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Good point. Although he's not really "lonely." When I think of loneliness I think of someone who doesn't want to be alone, but that's their situation. This guy LOVES to be alone.  If I can't find a better shot I will reshoot the "watching TV" shot, but with better lighting and composition.

Thanks guys.  Keep the opinions and suggestions coming.
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

PK, I agree with Disjecta.

Specifically, I think "my work" is not as funny with you playing a game as it is with you being on a web forum (doesn't have to be this one).

I think there's real truth to all the "lonely" people who are together on the Internet -- the video game by contrast is just a cheap punchline.
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

P.K. your killing yourself man. You're not going to please everyone.

I think its strange that people have commented on the pacing because its not like you re-edited the whole thing. All you did was replace a couple. I've watched both the old and new versions back to back and I don't notice any changes that affect the flow or pacing negatively.

1) Added establishing shot of the apartment building.

I liked this addition. Like you said the character is a loner, not lonely. This shot of him on the balcony really singles him out as a loner in a large city. It does look like an effect but I think on no budget you have to do what you have to do. Someone mentioned a static shot rather than a zoom. If thats what it takes to make the shot look real then that might help. Otherwise, I think the shot is more powerful than it is fake looking. If that makes sense. :)

2) Removed a white cup from a seat in a theater shot.

Didn't even notice, which is good.

3) Fixed a continuity problem in a hallway shot (d'oh!).

Again, didn't notice.

4) Cleaned up a 2 frame tape glitch with After Effects.

Noticed a glitch in an earlier version but thought it was from quicktime...didn't realize it was on tape.

5) Reshot a hallway scene - added boxes, a tv, and minor theft.

I like the boxes in the hallway. A visual element to let you know someone is moving in. One of the things I liked about the flick were the visual elements used. Almost like I could turn off the sound and still know exactly what was going on. Regarding stealing the globe it got a chuckle out of me. I didn't lose any innocence I felt for the character because he is obviously upset having a new neighbor. On the other hand I can see where someone would misinterpret it. I guess if you already have the shot without the theft you could exchange the chuckle for some extra comfort about his innocence.

6) Took out the DVXuser website shot (Sorry guys).

The video game totally works. I love how he lies in his narration.

7) Color corrected, although it's still bad.

Yeah...oh well. :P


I don't think any of these changes could have possible affected the pacing of the short. Maybe peoples minds playing tricks on them? :P
 
Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

Re: The Loner - New Version (5 min)

i thought it was fine. Like Exfilms said, "you're not going to please everyone." With that said just leave just the way it is. :D
 
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