The Letus Ultimate -- Experience Thread

This has nothing to do with any adapter or manufacturer. It involves Cinevate as much as it involves Go35. I'm as guilty as others and I'm trying to do less speculating and more hardcore field shooting to really form an opinion. Leni opened a lot of our eyes to issues with ALL of these adapters, and for that I've found an entirely different respect for him and actually finding out for yourself.

In that effect, I'm in the same position as he was when that Brevis thread had started: Put your hands on it, use it, then tell us what it's all about.

Until someone posts up a very detailed Bokeh to Bokeh comparison for everyone to look at the "bokeh" king deal is useless.
 
I am not arguing, just discussing here Jason, sorry if it sounds like you might have a pair of kids fighting, but I don't intend to do that.

Kholi, I agree with what you are saying about the lenses... it is all about lenses kind of, we only plan to use matching lenses in each section of our project obviously... and we have only one lens that might not match but we might use alone in the intro and last sequence of the movie anyway.
Also, I didn't mention overall sharpness... it is kind of believed that the Letus might be the sharpest all around, but the SGpro is never talked about as soft when focused right...

Again bro, I am talking about my perception of my own statistics from all footage I've seen... all situations, all lenses and all users. And the SGpro looks better to me. Also this is likely the adapter that most people like in terms of image, not speed.

Kholi said:
I'm as guilty as others and I'm trying to do less speculating and more hardcore field shooting to really form an opinion.
Click to expand...

Keep in mid that this is DVXuser... and there are a lot of us with limitations you probably can't underst5and anymore. Bless you for that, we all want you to work non stop cause we get a lot of reviews footage and info from you. Just remember that speculation is a portion of the game played here.
 
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You actually aren't getting anything I'm saying, but it doesn't matter. There's way too many people jumping in the thread ready to justify their decisions this way or that with no hardened information.

IN that effect, I'm petitioning to have this thread deleted. I just don't have the tolerance for it. And I surely don't want to drive any potential Letus customers away simply because I'm attempting to swat down second-hand information.
 
I am not trying to justify anything, Kholi.
I am trying to make the right decision so
I don't lose a few hundred bucks switching
over...

...and if you were the Mod and deleted this
thread I would lose a valuable source of information
and lessons... on which I count on cause I can't afford
film school...
 
USlatin, I think Kholi has a very valid point and it is what separates one filmmaker from another. You absolutely can not judge bokeh or any characters as hard fact of an adapter by the footage you see online. I spend a good deal of time on dvxuser as well AND i own over half a dozen different adapters and still don't consider myself the expert. I feel like each and every shoot further scratches the surface as to what there is to learn and accomplish with the adapters.

With the SGPro, I just finished a new promo video for an aerospace company and then immediately traveled off to do an indie film for the Ladd Company. The results were drastically different regarding bokeh, skin tones, lighting, and sharpness due to lenses and environments changing. One was controlled on a set, the other was massive jet hangers. The look is somewhat similar to itself overall, but I still love the film we shot with the Brevis a couple months ago, or the commercial we did with the M2 or the Letus for the doc interviews two weeks ago. Thus, things rely more on the setup at times rather than the adapter itself. Honestly, I'll still take a loaded up SG with all these new enhancements (soon to be released) over everything else. Doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to my MP.1 Brevis coming in next week though or my M2 Micro X if it ever gets here.
 
I was not disputing any facts on usability... I haven't shot with a single adapter yet... ever. Just watched hours and hours of footage shot with them. I don't consider myself a DP or a camera operator, I am not. So I agree with you Avenger007. And I also wish I could get the new SGpro, but I am not even sure when I will be able to get my own adapter right now. However it sure will be SG though cause if I can get the lenses, monitors, lights and grip stuff I sure as heck hope to be able to get just the lights for other good projects.

I know which are the factors that affect the image though, and it seems from what Kholi is saying that there is a very limited amount of things to attest to the actual ground glass and I believe that and what he says. I know that Kholi has a much better understanding of how to shoot, what to expect and what to attribute particular image's intricacies to. However I just think that it is not too close not to call the things I've said. I don't think that at any point I've misrepresented the Letus Xtreme or Ultimate, or the SGpro for that matter. And I am not lining to people about my experience...
 
Wow. I leave you two for a week and look what happens. Pure chaos!

I'm thinking about a shoot out myself... SG vs M2 vs Ultimate vs EX vs Brevis. All with latest updates and flips. However, logistically things are going to get complicated so I've decided to stall for the next 6 months.
 
Sifting through all the stuff here... Here's the moral.... If you are in the market for an adapter and have never shot with one before or owned one... Pick one... If, like in Latin's case, you have poured over hours and hours of footage online, there's only so much reading you can do. At a point, pick one, buy it and start shooting with it. You will likely be pleased overall with the results as all of these adapters in question (Excluding the Ultimate for a moment) have been shown quite capable of great results in the right hands, and if you haven't ever shot with one yet, you shouldn't be too terribly picky yet. The main thing is to get some hands on time with one.

Buy one and shoot with it. Latin. Buy the one you are leaning towards and shoot with it. At a point, you have to stop reading and worrying over making the "wrong decision" and get one. There is a huge aftermarket for adapters and you can always sell later, but I think the key here is that if you want one that bad, pick one and get it. Learn the hands on ropes with it.

NOW>>>>>

This thread, as has been mentioned before, has a particular title. So, I'd suggest that we allow this thread to return to it's originally intended topic of one users experiences with a new adapter on the market that not a lot of folks have gotten a chance to use yet.

These adapter wars and discussions that get into semantics are getting to the point that they head into the toilet relatively quickly. It's going to get to the point that adapter vs. adapter is going to be like mac vs. pc on this board.

Later,
Jason
 
Consider this my resignation from the Gear Wars sector for good. Camera vs Camera, brand vs brand. This stuff is for the birds. I'm wastin' too much energy debatin' over inanimate objects and not enough tryin' to write up something of my own to shoot.

Jason is absolutely correct: They're all good enough, you should choose the adapter or level of adapter that best suits your work. My choice is the one that frees up as many limitations imposed in one single unit. That's my reality. And if another unnamed unit happens along that I like as much I'll grab that one too. You don't need to justify your purchases with anyone else (guilty as charged), just post up your work and let it speak for yourself and your weapon of choice; that's all the talking you need to do. I think someone just told me that but I'm not sure who. HMM.

Whenever I get some more footage I'll post up. For those of you whom need to find it, here it goes again: http://www.vimeo.com/1093520
 
Again, I totally agree with both of you, but I wasn't engaging in "Gear Wars" I am just a little OCD about what I do, and I just don't have anything else to do than learn, shoot my own projects and try to get my own gear from which I probsbly for a long time still won't make a cent. So...
I purge though hoards of threads reading, posting, learning. In my limited experience and not so limited knowledge or abundance of capabilities and desire for rationalization, I made my choice, and I wan not "knocking" anyone down, or "knocking" any piece of equipment down either. I was simply talking about what I see.

And sorry Jason, I didn't mean to take or help take the thread off subject. I am guilty for being too eager, easily exited or intense at times, which can all also be great qualities if handled and utilized properly.

And all of this is why I talk to you guys.
 
Kholi said:
Any blow-out will haze bokeh. This is true with the SGPro and every adapter known to this niche. Bokeh rendition depends on more than just a ground glass. This includes distance from subject, iris blade count, iris stop, lens coating, the amount of light in comparison to subject and background and more.

What the SGPro's thicker ground glass will do is help diffuse blow-out faster than any thinner counter part.

If you'd like I wouldn't have a problem posting full resolution samples of what people here consider "bad bokeh" from many top dollar movies. It's more than just the ground glass.

But I digress. :B If people are paying more attention to the background than the actual subject then I need to go back to naked camera to learn a few things.
Click to expand...


Here it is!

Just the letus extreme, but proof of the good bokeh under certain conditions:

Currently, with th extreme, one really cannot go past F5.6, and even then udner certain conditions you see the grain. So F4 would be preferable. The problem with this is that at F5.6 the bokeh attains the same quality as the sgpro ( Just my opinion please don't flame me ) however due to the lack of gg movement we see the grain, where as the SGpro has the spinner which means you can still step down to 5.6 to get the great sgpro bokeh without seeing the grain:

Evidence of the extreme with an 85mm lens at different f-stops:

bokehrenditionak3.jpg



my personal opinion is that 5.6 yields excellent film like bokeh. F 4 has a slight more haze but acceptable. F2.8 is a sharper F2.0, with a bright center and a hazy surrounding, where as F2.0 is just plain hazy unattractive bokeh
 
Yup. Exactly, Papa. When you understand what Bokeh is and how the ground glass effects it then you can optimize it. Frame Composition in regards to Bokeh is merely another tool in the arsenal as far as creating appealing imagery is concerned.

In regards to the iris itself, shooting wide open in broad daylight with any of the current run of adapters will see Hazed bokeh. I wouldn't shoot wide open unless the specific shot required the most shallow depth possible, which tends to happen in commercials.

What you can do, instead of relying on the Taking lens iris, is use the camera's iris to reduce the "haze" effect. By cutting out the light hitting the sensor and increasing the camera's depth the haze begins to vanish. So, try stopping down your camera more so than the lens and see what you get as far as "pronounced edges" in the out of focus areas.

The stills look great.
 
actually, the more closed the 35mm lens, the more open the camera ap and vice versa.

I think i was close to F8 when i shot at F2.0 on the 35mm lens. But yeah!
 
Ah gotcha. Somehow the results were a bit different with my Extreme and HVX200 combo when using the iris. I would get a lot less haze when stopping down at wide open apertures on the taking lens.

Suppose it's a matter of workin' it til you got it down.

I'm stuck digitizing DVCproHD tapes right now, I think as soon as I drop the other in I'll take a stab at doing some bokeh stills as well.
 
"In regards to the iris itself, shooting wide open in broad daylight with any of the current run of adapters will see Hazed bokeh."

The more open the lens the more "circular" your bokeh will be, the more you stop down, the more "hexagonal" it is. Hazy bokeh has to do with diffusion of the GG. The exact angle of degree the light passes through.

Look here: http://www.luminitco.com/Light_Shaping_Diffusers.html.
Shows you angles of degree.

Example. My DIY adapter Nikon 50mm wide open 1.8. I stop down it'll be smaller and no beautiful circles to accommodate.

Bell.jpg
 
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What I am saying is that when you shoot wide open on camera and lens bokeh hazes because of aerial light pass-through. So, yes, you've effectively said what I said.

The diffusion of the ground glass will determine how much light pass-through occurs or how little. In the instance of the Extreme more light passes through in comparison to an M2 or SGpro, so it hazes "faster". If you ever get a chance to play with an M2 or SGPro, take it outside and shoot wide open, allowing bokeh to be overexposed. You will see the same effect.

It's also evident in the footage that Marco posted in the SGpro Bokeh tests. Where he shoots wide open the highlights "haze". I've got an SGPro sitting right next to me and I've experienced the same thing.

Edit here: By the Photo professional term "good" Bokeh is not characterized by only having solid circle shaped items in the out-of-focus fore or background.. Often sought are hexaganol or even "star" shaped bokeh. Where bokeh goes bad is donut or over-exposed centers and adversely very bright outlines. Most of the time this is due to the lens itself and how it renders bokeh.

Second Edit Here: It's probably best for everyone (no one being singled out) to keep reminding themselves that Bokeh, like everything else in this sector, is another subjective element. Whatever's pleasing is pleasing, there are a few things that are considered "not so good" but once beyond those it's all a matter of taste.

Off Topic: is your design static? Looks static.
 
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When wide open with the Extreme it's like this "glow" to the entire image. Like someone installed Magic Bullet inside of the adapter. So if the camera and lens (particularly a 1.4 wide open) there's this really light "glow" all over the image that's more apparent with out of focus area.

The "glow" disperses as the camera iris closes.

Have you noticed it on your Extreme at all?
 
Kholi said:
When wide open with the Extreme it's like this "glow" to the entire image. Like someone installed Magic Bullet inside of the adapter. So if the camera and lens (particularly a 1.4 wide open) there's this really light "glow" all over the image that's more apparent with out of focus area.

The "glow" disperses as the camera iris closes.

Have you noticed it on your Extreme at all?
Click to expand...


This is not due to the adapter (well it may or may not add to the effect). It is just the way lenses fall apart at wide open. First and foremost in highlights and areas with great contrast. You can see it on SLRs and cinema cameras a well. When I do stillshoots I only open open the lens all the way on closeups and when I want this blur/glow for an effect. In video it may even disguise harsh lines that says "VIDEO".
 
Oh? I've never noticed it wide open on my DSLR at all. But you may be right. Might call for a test to do some wide open shooting today.
 
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