The H4N + Wired Lavaliers - Connections

R

rossagrant

Member
Hi guys,

Firstly, thanks for such an amzingly informative forum.

I am a total newcomer to audio, actually being an actor rather than an audio tech.

Being an actor I have worked on set with lots of audio guys and it amazes me everytime how they do their jobs and they often make it look easy.

I have recently realised just HOW difficult sound is when trying things out myself.

I have just read all of the sticky topics on this site and also listened to some awesome demos of wired lavalier mics which was contributed on this forum also.

I am about to launch my own site which will contain interviews and also myself presenting stuff to camera.

I have picked up a H4N in order to record audio seperately but I need some help with what equipment I will need in order to plug in wired lavs to the H4N?

I can't find that info in the stickies but sorry if I have overlooked it.

The H4N has 2 XLR inputs. Is it possible for me to connect 2 lavaliers if needed also? One for me (presenter) and one for the interviewee? Would love to hear of anyone's experience with lavaliers and the H4N.

Thanks for your time!
 
Welcome to DVXUser!

You can order just about any lavaliere mic with XLR termination, and equipped to use phantom power. That will allow you to plug straight into the H4n. Some lavs also have a battery-powered option in the form of an inline barrel that holds one AA battery. If you order from an online dealer, you may be better off calling them and speaking to a live person who can talk you through which option you need for XLR/phantom termination, just to make sure you're ordering the right configuration.
 
C2V said:
Welcome to DVXUser!

You can order just about any lavaliere mic with XLR termination, and equipped to use phantom power. That will allow you to plug straight into the H4n. Some lavs also have a battery-powered option in the form of an inline barrel that holds one AA battery. If you order from an online dealer, you may be better off calling them and speaking to a live person who can talk you through which option you need for XLR/phantom termination, just to make sure you're ordering the right configuration.
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That's great news! I didn't realise i could just use any. Does anyone have any recommendations for wired lavaliers which would be suitable for interview/ presenting kind of work in the £150 - £200 range?

Obviously if I can get away with spending any less then that would be great but I appreciate good audio requires decent money!
 
Take a look at the Sanken COS11, or the Countryman B3 or B6. Right in your price range, and all three are fantastic lavs.
 
C2V said:
Take a look at the Sanken COS11, or the Countryman B3 or B6. Right in your price range, and all three are fantastic lavs.
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Thanks SO MUCH! For your help! I can see myself using these forums quite a bit over the next few weeks!

Really appreciate it! :)
 
Just realized that I'm not sure if you were talking £150 - £200 per mic, or as a total investment. That's about the price range for one good lav, but if that is your total budget you might want to look at the Countryman EMW. If you can afford any of the others, get them... but the EMW is a good lav at a lower price.
 
Thanks again,

Will check out all those mics and prices. Do you know how long the wires are on these kind of mics. Would it be feasible to have an interview with me behind the camera sking questions whilst the interviewee is infront of the camera and the HN4 hidden out of view?
 
rossagrant said:
Thanks again,

Will check out all those mics and prices. Do you know how long the wires are on these kind of mics. Would it be feasible to have an interview with me behind the camera sking questions whilst the interviewee is infront of the camera and the HN4 hidden out of view?
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That would be a stretch. The cables are typically around 1.5m in length. It's a better idea to use an XLR cable between the end of the wired lav and the H4n. It's really easy to forget you're wearing a wired lav, and you often start walking away not realizing you're tethered to other equipment. Having the additional XLR cable will help protect your equipment. An additional 1.8m XLR cable can go a long way.

Another tip for picking out mics: limit yourself to only choosing omni-directional mics. Omnis are used almost universally in video and film production. Avoid cardioid lavs and other pick-up patterns.
 
Sam Mallery said:
Another tip for picking out mics: limit yourself to only choosing omni-directional mics. Omnis are used almost universally in video and film production. Avoid cardioid lavs and other pick-up patterns.
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Cheers Sam!

I'll ask for extra XLR cables then to give me some cable to play with then.

So have you worked with the zoom HN4 before. Will this be an adequate setup for interview style videos?

2 decent lavs, connected to the HN4 via XLR cables?

Also do you have any tips for settings or pre amps with the Zoom and lavs? I'm just totally new and trying to read up and research as much as possible as not to waste money on poor equipment. Would rather spend more and use it for years than by stuff I haven't researched and find it's rubbish!
 
rossagrant said:
So have you worked with the zoom HN4 before. Will this be an adequate setup for interview style videos?
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Yes, I have an H4n. It should be fine.


rossagrant said:
Also do you have any tips for settings or pre amps with the Zoom and lavs? I'm just totally new and trying to read up and research as much as possible as not to waste money on poor equipment. Would rather spend more and use it for years than by stuff I haven't researched and find it's rubbish!
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Well, if you can spend more on a recorder, you can certainly do better than the H4n, that's for sure. The trouble is that you'd have to spend a lot more money, and you'll have a larger piece of equipment that's pretty different from the H4n - so if you compared them side by side on paper - it wouldn't be tremendously clear why the next option up is so expensive. For example, check out the Tascam HD-P2. It's a totally different animal, but a better recorder in my opinion.

Settings wise, I always set my recorder to record 48kHz 24 bit WAV files.

Pre-amp wise, that's something you'll need to learn. Controlling the levels on an audio recorder is equal to focusing a camera. There isn't one level setting that I can recommend, just as there isn't one focus setting you can recommend.

There is auto-focus on many cameras, and there is AGC (automatic gain control) on the H4n. If you want to be pro, using auto focus usually isn't the best idea. Same goes for AGC.
 
Woah it's just a whole different ball game isn't it!

The thing is I will most likely be doing these shoots on my own so it will be hard to keep an eye on the camera and watch levels as well as monitor sound through phones.

The camera will be on a tripod and the subject will be pretty stationary so I guess that isn't too much of an issue but in terms of engaging with the interviewee and monitoring levels it just isn't possible with one pair of eyes!

It's something I'll just have to deal with and find some settings that will cater for most situations. The sound might not be 100% perfect but as long as it's of above average quality for web video I'll be happy!

Thanks so much for all of the help. I think I'll end up going for the Sanken COS-11X to start with and see how I go!

Anyone got any tips for the cheapest UK supplier of lavs? :)
 
Just checked out the new Rode lavalier and it sounds pretty sweet along with multiple connectors too.

ANyone used it? Sounds comparable to the Sanken's to me.
 
rossagrant said:
Just checked out the new Rode lavalier and it sounds pretty sweet along with multiple connectors too.

ANyone used it? Sounds comparable to the Sanken's to me.
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Did you catch Chad's lav shootout? The RODE doesn't sound bad at all, but I will say that the COS11 is tried and true. The RODE is a newcomer, though the interchangeable connections are a brilliant idea.

As for the recorder, if you just recently purchased the H4n and are still within a window to return/exchange it, you might want to look at the Fostex FR-2LE. Not as expensive as the HD-P2, but miles above the H4n. Much cleaner pre-amps, better form factor. It doesn't matter how good your mic is; if the pre-amp isn't good, the recording isn't good. (The sound is only as good as the weakest link in the chain.) The headphone amp on the FR-2LE isn't the best, but the noise you hear in the headphones is not in the recording.

Do some more reading on the Zoom recorders. They're handy for some things, but not the best solution for most things. They are also not as durable, and the pre-amps are picky with some microphones. There are several threads on this forum about the Zooms in particular, though there are discussions about several of the other hand-held recorders.
 
Just watched Chad's Lav shootout and it was great. That was where I heard about the Rode Lavalier.

Si will I not get decent quality with a Sanken or a Rode Lavalier plugged into the H4N.

I bought the H4N as I needed to spread my budget widely and with the built in stereo mics great for ambient noise etc, i thought I could get decent results using it as a standalone as well as an interface for lavaliers?

Has anyone seen any samples of a decent lavs plugged into the H4N. I'd especially love to hear the Sanken or Rode laves.

Thanks once agin for all of your help, it's very kind of you guys to put the time in! :)
 
You will get satisfactory results with the H4n rossgrant. Remember, there is ALWAYS something better. Learn to use what you have then upgrade when needed.

As to working the camera, audio and interviewing....well, that's just something you have to figure a way around.

I narrate all my Docs in post anyway and my end of the interview gets cut out and replaced. It's not always easy but I don't let the person just drone on in the finished product. He gets cut up into pieces and woven in with the video and narration.

What works for me won't necessarily work for you though so you have to work on your technique.
 
For dialogue interviews the H4N should be fine. I run wireless lavs into a Audio Technica Stereo wireless reciever, then into the H4N. Sometimes I go through a MixPre to mix down properly and reduce noise. The setup with dual lavs, transmitters and reciever I think set me back close to $1k USD (.50 GBP?--grin). Anyway, if you are doing audio for video, then you might need lavs, but if you are doing audio for audio, why not just buy an EV Re50B Dynamic with a longish XLR cable and do interviews the old fashion way, hold the mic near your mouth and then near theirs. The EVRE50B is cheap, under $150, and a workhorse. You can't kill it. You can add an AT transmitter to it, and push to a wireless reciever too! Just remember, keep the mic 4 fingers from the mouth, no farther. Put your four fingers together, then fan them out a bit, and one end should be at the mouth of the talker, the mic at the other end of the spread. A good rule of thumb.

Lastly, a couple of mics on a table top mount with wires might also do the job to start, if you don't have background noise. Or a radio show setup, with some cheap tabletop mics. I have all of these and they serve different purposes. I use the wireless lavs the most though. They are the most flexible (length, location, etc.)

Only thing about the H4N, its a bit harsh sound. But you might not notice it enough to worry about it. Having the XLR inputs is worth the tradeoff in that price range.
 
For an interview that's being shot on video in a controlled environment, wired lavs are usually a much better choice. If the primary medium is an audio podcast or radio, then RE50B's would be okay. Handheld mics are best for "man-on-the-street" impromptu interviews. Rossagrant is on the right track with the wired lav purchase.http://www.dvxuser.com/member.php?75467-rossagrant
 
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