John Caballero
Veteran
c'mon, let's keep it opened for a week or 2.. it's fun
Lol! It won't last that long. Watch Nuno Dias words become a reality long before that.
The facts on why Philip Bloom sold his EPIC
- Thread starter m83
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Lol! It won't last that long. Watch Nuno Dias words become a reality long before that.
I don't want to get any thread closed. Far from that. My point was that, there is no consistency in these issues. You should know what and how Jim posts on his forum. Any other member would get banned, or deleted. Isn't that hypocritical?
Do you really think Mr. Bloom was banned by mistake... come on, did someone clicked the wrong mouse button by mistake! Oops... really? if he wasn't Phillip Bloom, no one would even care about him, let alone bring him back. Too much bad publicity. He's got a very healthy number of followers...
So please, stop trying to stop me from saying what I think, in a civil, straightforward manner, by pointing out my intentions that really only exist in your head.
I know this isn't a democracy, but I live in one, so does everybody else here I believe. And that's a right I intend to use, until someone bans me. But its all too hypocritical for me to stay quiet about it.
But I also must say, that here, the moderators have been much more sensible, balanced and honest than on Reduser.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank Philip Bloom for his honesty and efforts. When the Scarlet announcement came out on Nov 3rd, I had to look for alternatives since the 3K for 3K promise from RED came closer to 3K for 14K which was out of my price range. I looked into the AF100 and FS100 as possibilities but wasn't sure which one to get. Then I saw videos on Vimeo that helped me decide. One of them was a wonderful (Non-scientific) test by Philip Bloom that really solidified my choice. I am happy that there are still HONEST shooters out there whom simply want to post the advantages and disadvantages of a certain camera. The fact that he was treated so badly disgusts me. Of course, I am not surprised. I was a RED owner once #622. Initially, when RED came out, I had to be the one defending the company constantly. Everyone told me I was foolish putting my faith in this fledgling camera company, but I kept my faith. However, as the years went by, I saw a definite change in how RED and the fanboys conducted themselves on Reduser.net. It seemed as if any time anyone said anything negative about the camera, they were under suspicion of being associated with the competition. I'm guessing that is why "real" names were required which was a first for me in posting on ANY forums. BTW: My real name is Ralph Wong, and I am not afraid to say that. Hearing that a high level person in RED actually intervened and banned Philip for telling the truth really is the last straw. I guess I am writing this for two reasons. One is to thank Philip for what he has done. The other is to make a plea that DVXuser does not become the same as REDuser. The reason I only post on this forum now is because it allows for the free exchange of ideas and opinions. I thought that was the whole point of these things. I understand why certain threads get closed because of personal attacks, but let's not get too sensitive to the point where we cannot even complain about how a company handles its customers. As a person looking to buy a camera in the near future, this information is vital to me, and DVXuser is one of the few bastions of enlightenment left. Keep your head high Philip. We're with you on this one.
S. Matthews
Well-known member
the reality is it seems like you are attacking Jim just the same as people did Phillip (without actually knowing either of them personally) either way it's not right and you are doing what you are complaining about others doing. the reality is yes you have the right to do it, both Phillip and Jim have made themselves Icons and large targets and that's what you get by putting yourself out there, and you should be able to have a thick skin and deal with it.
All I am saying is this is not helping you are just going to the other extreme but you have full right to do that, but understand when you do you justify others acting the opposite way or the way most of those annoying red fanboys act. So it's circular and at some point we have to stop it as it's helping no one, constructive criticism is always welcome but very often presented horribly especially on internet forums.
I know I was a little snarky but come on you post that on reduser under a different name if I remember correctly (or it was you or someone else not sure) then when the thread is closed you come and post it here (not sure if you just copied or it was extremely similar) it just felt like you were trying to stir up the s**t which is what got us into all this in the first place. Now I'm sorry if that is not the case it's just most of your posts come off very combative and I read into this sorry.
Have a good one!
P.s. the actions of the red employee are unknown to us but from the sound of it, it was unacceptable, yet I feel there is more to this than we know I have some personal opinions on how things could have been handled better on both sides but it's not my place to point that out now, what is done is done, nothing that can be done about it but learn from the mistakes and move on, in whatever direction that may be.
All I am saying is this is not helping you are just going to the other extreme but you have full right to do that, but understand when you do you justify others acting the opposite way or the way most of those annoying red fanboys act. So it's circular and at some point we have to stop it as it's helping no one, constructive criticism is always welcome but very often presented horribly especially on internet forums.
I know I was a little snarky but come on you post that on reduser under a different name if I remember correctly (or it was you or someone else not sure) then when the thread is closed you come and post it here (not sure if you just copied or it was extremely similar) it just felt like you were trying to stir up the s**t which is what got us into all this in the first place. Now I'm sorry if that is not the case it's just most of your posts come off very combative and I read into this sorry.
Have a good one!
P.s. the actions of the red employee are unknown to us but from the sound of it, it was unacceptable, yet I feel there is more to this than we know I have some personal opinions on how things could have been handled better on both sides but it's not my place to point that out now, what is done is done, nothing that can be done about it but learn from the mistakes and move on, in whatever direction that may be.
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I'll tell you what gets a thread closed pretty right quick -- attacking each other, no matter why you're doing it. There's been one warning already. This is a second. There won't be a third.
Did you read the part where he says RED bought all his stuff back? Even the third Party stuff? Do you know anyone else on the Planet who would do this? Maybe you should rethink, "your problem with RED".
Barry_Green
Moderator
We will remain a source of information exchange. But we will not become a harbor for the kinds of idiots and trolls and libelous slanderers that are exactly what Bloom was subjected to.
This is a place where people are required to treat everyone else with courtesy and respect. That is not optional. This place is a clubhouse where people simply have to get along and treat their fellows with respect. If someone bursts in and blazes away with rude, demeaning slander, accusations, insinuations, or is on some
soapbox to try to advance their personal cause, we will throw them out on their ass. Period. Whether what they are saying is "the truth" or not. We've said it a million times, it isn't what you say nearly so much as HOW you say it.
So - behave in a gentlemanly manner, show respect to your fellow members, and share what you've learned. That's what we are here for. But we are not here to host bitchfests, or to crucify or drag down one person or another, or to support any person's vendetta against one company or person or other forum or whatever.
After eight years of running this place, we have learned what works and what doesn't. Our focus is on the users, helping and empowering them and educating each other and connecting groups together. We expect and in fact require civil behavior. Derogatory, slanderous, confrontational and disrespectful posts will of course be removed.
Phillip has said his part and clearly considers the matter closed. I haven't seen red's official response (if there even is or will be one) but let's remember that there are always two sides to every story, and none of us were involved in this so we can't possibly know exactly what happened, and speculation is rather pointless.
Thanks for understanding how this place is run.
This is a place where people are required to treat everyone else with courtesy and respect. That is not optional. This place is a clubhouse where people simply have to get along and treat their fellows with respect. If someone bursts in and blazes away with rude, demeaning slander, accusations, insinuations, or is on some
soapbox to try to advance their personal cause, we will throw them out on their ass. Period. Whether what they are saying is "the truth" or not. We've said it a million times, it isn't what you say nearly so much as HOW you say it.
So - behave in a gentlemanly manner, show respect to your fellow members, and share what you've learned. That's what we are here for. But we are not here to host bitchfests, or to crucify or drag down one person or another, or to support any person's vendetta against one company or person or other forum or whatever.
After eight years of running this place, we have learned what works and what doesn't. Our focus is on the users, helping and empowering them and educating each other and connecting groups together. We expect and in fact require civil behavior. Derogatory, slanderous, confrontational and disrespectful posts will of course be removed.
Phillip has said his part and clearly considers the matter closed. I haven't seen red's official response (if there even is or will be one) but let's remember that there are always two sides to every story, and none of us were involved in this so we can't possibly know exactly what happened, and speculation is rather pointless.
Thanks for understanding how this place is run.
J Davis
Veteran
@Nuno. There's other rivalries though. The rivalry between nikon and canon still shooters goes waaaaaay back.
edit: but as far as I've seen its always been a much more of a friendly rivalry.
Sort of a nod and a grin and a "aaah you're a canon guy" and "ohhh you're one of those nikon guys"
well thts been my experience when on still gigs
edit: but as far as I've seen its always been a much more of a friendly rivalry.
Sort of a nod and a grin and a "aaah you're a canon guy" and "ohhh you're one of those nikon guys"
well thts been my experience when on still gigs
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Exactly. If they're going to treat a guy with such a huge public forum like this, what are they going to do when little ole me has a problem?! Scary.
To be fair, that's not true. They're smart enough not to call anyone out by name, but snippy comments like "OUR camera is REAL 4K unlike SOME BRANDS" are common.
Sure, I believe there might be that sort of thing going on in the stills world, as there are many manufacturers at work.
But just to get a sense of scale of things, check out Arri's forum. Its as smooth as silk. So why is that every time there is bashing, Red is usually involved? Like I said, and I stand by it, Jim, for as a wonderful fella he might be, is one of the main causes of the problem. His posts, if inverted towards Red, word for word, would be deleted. They would be considered problematic, disrespectful and insinuatory. And that is not a good way to ask and demand for peace and respect...
dustylense
Veteran
"Bring a bazooka to a knife fight". There are over 100 Scarlets out in the wild. Only 2 minutes of footage. What gives?
Samuel H
Major Contributor
<joke>
maybe scarlet is just a very expensive paperweight that doesn't record any footage; how can you know it's not the case? if it was so, would the owners tell you? or would they think of the consequences...
</joke>
(yes, those tags are needed in this thread)
Because none of them are working?
I am a fan of sharing the experience and lessons learned that a person has with a product. Thanks for sharing that experience with us Philip! I support that process of sharing. I'm aware that in the early stage of deploy, many products and companies have problems/challenges to address. I'm not saying what any of that means....I am saying that IF I USE A CAMERA, and IT HAS PROBLEMS....I will report it to this community (and others). If that's a problem with fanboys (of whatever company, whatever product)...to freaking bad!!!!!
Thanks for sharing your experience, Philip. We appreciate you....you'll have my support (and countless others) as you continue on your journey as a film maker. Cheers!
Thanks for sharing your experience, Philip. We appreciate you....you'll have my support (and countless others) as you continue on your journey as a film maker. Cheers!
roei z
Veteran
you mean me??
how come? this is a very interesting subject and seeing the post above me obviously shortening the life of the thread,
i was just trying to keep it a bit light, not getting heavy after every nasty response.
nothing wrong with that
correct me if i'm wrong.
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