TubEfingers
Well-known member
Resolution on the landscapes and buildings is incredible, skin tones and some of the solid blocks of colour look a little off to my eyes though, is that just me?
The Emperor's Memory Cards Are Wearing No Clothes !!!
- Thread starter TheDingo
- Start date
NorBro
Major Contributor
As one would imagine, resolution is RED's strong suit.
REDCODE is beautiful and IMO the best RAW format in the world, but you have so many combinations of the provided options to tweak the image that the overall process sometimes may complicate your vision. When I see videos like this - which I think are going for more of "dull" look to retain as much DR as possible - I assume the files were barely worked on. Just a few clicks here and there. (Some shots look like they are straight out of the camera.)
They could have made this video look much differently if they wanted to.
REDCODE is beautiful and IMO the best RAW format in the world, but you have so many combinations of the provided options to tweak the image that the overall process sometimes may complicate your vision. When I see videos like this - which I think are going for more of "dull" look to retain as much DR as possible - I assume the files were barely worked on. Just a few clicks here and there. (Some shots look like they are straight out of the camera.)
They could have made this video look much differently if they wanted to.
Guess, that makes it garlic and squid flavoured icecream. Fine for live sports on a jumbotron, not so great for narrative, documentary or anything that requires a cinematic cadence. IMHO
Douglas Trumbull was on the right track with Showscan (60fps 70mm film). I saw in the theater and people broke out in tears- had a very emotional impact (simple beautiful nature shots and flying over mountains etc.). It’s still used for simulator/motion platform rides. When shot and presented correctly- it doesn’t look like film or video- it feels like reality.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
Agree completely.... though shooting and colour grading my next corporate presentation as though it is a scene from the 300 might not go down well.
However the point of this thread is you don't want to pay the earth for escapism when the cost appears to be unjustified.
NorBro
Major Contributor
This guy is always worth a watch although he definitely doesn't understand some things about the camera industry (as he himself mentioned multiple times):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbOaoyd96GQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbOaoyd96GQ
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
He completely misses the point.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
My main profession, and the other company I own, is embedded electronics systems and embedded software. We work internationally with many companies including companies in the camera markets. I know exactly how the world works. Jinimag has hit the nail on the head.
NorBro
Major Contributor
IMO, he's hit the "nail on the head" because I imagine he's upset as heck. He may be correct (although I really didn't like his media failure intro in the first video as it's completely misleading), but he tried to make money off of this as well.
And that's exactly how the world works; making as much money as possible in the short amount of time we have.
For some people, right or wrong. (And that doesn't mean what RED did/does is wrong.)
And that's exactly how the world works; making as much money as possible in the short amount of time we have.
For some people, right or wrong. (And that doesn't mean what RED did/does is wrong.)
The most interesting thing about this topic is that a bunch of people that don't own RED cameras are babbling on for 15 pages about something that doesn't concern them. It's the human behavior here that is the most interesting. As he said, RED owners are defending RED and non-owners are griping about it. Most peculiar.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
Actually it is quite as expected.
For Red users either you admit you were duped into spending a lot of money on something "ordinary" and were taken in by the marketing or staunchly defend it.
This is not uncommon. There are of course a few who will be anti-Red anyway and will shout loudly "told you so" .
Much like the for/against Apple supporters.
The dispassionate and balanced view is more likely to come from those without a dog in the fight.
Linus Tech tips video was I though a fair and balanced view.
NorBro
Major Contributor
The one aspect of this entire thought-process that many people need to start processing in their minds is companies having - or even deserving I dare to say - the right to overprice.
This is simple universal common sense that applies to thousands of products.
As long as you are not breaking laws, it's a free market. In addition to paying for components, materials, overall quality and any technological aptitude, you are also paying for the right to have the company's name on the product.
And a company may determine to have the aforementioned worth 10% of the cost, but their name to be worth 90% of the cost. This is their option (again, if no laws are broken).
We have overpaid for modern day goods for half a century. The $600 pair of jeans my co-worker bought two months ago are probably not worth that much either.
___
I think a lot of people are angry and jealous they made so much money in such a simple way, but I feel that 99% would do the same if they had the opportunity to do so.
This is simple universal common sense that applies to thousands of products.
As long as you are not breaking laws, it's a free market. In addition to paying for components, materials, overall quality and any technological aptitude, you are also paying for the right to have the company's name on the product.
And a company may determine to have the aforementioned worth 10% of the cost, but their name to be worth 90% of the cost. This is their option (again, if no laws are broken).
We have overpaid for modern day goods for half a century. The $600 pair of jeans my co-worker bought two months ago are probably not worth that much either.
___
I think a lot of people are angry and jealous they made so much money in such a simple way, but I feel that 99% would do the same if they had the opportunity to do so.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
No one is complaining about any of that.
Well not until Red started making claims about it's own products and saying things about Jinimag's products .
Then Jinimag robustly defended itself and showed that it appears RED are making claims that appear not to be legitimate or indeed may not be legal.
My level of electronics is at the level of the firmware inside the SSD so I do understand Jinimag's arguments.
Red's Technical arguments don't seem to hold water.
That is the point of the argument not a companies right to make money. No problem there.
The goods and services are worth what the market will bare.
Making false claims about products is something else.
That is where people get annoyed and that seems to be the point of this argument.
Jinimag must be fairly sure of themselves to make the allegations in the way they have.
It is not something they can easily retract or step back from.
Then again neither can RED with their statements.
It will be interesting to see who, if anyone starts legal action and who against.
Well not until Red started making claims about it's own products and saying things about Jinimag's products .
Then Jinimag robustly defended itself and showed that it appears RED are making claims that appear not to be legitimate or indeed may not be legal.
My level of electronics is at the level of the firmware inside the SSD so I do understand Jinimag's arguments.
Red's Technical arguments don't seem to hold water.
That is the point of the argument not a companies right to make money. No problem there.
The goods and services are worth what the market will bare.
Making false claims about products is something else.
That is where people get annoyed and that seems to be the point of this argument.
Jinimag must be fairly sure of themselves to make the allegations in the way they have.
It is not something they can easily retract or step back from.
Then again neither can RED with their statements.
It will be interesting to see who, if anyone starts legal action and who against.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
What was the result?
Those videos would suggest Jinjmag won.
Otherwise they are being very silly.
jamedia.uk
Well-known member
Found it:- https://dockets.justia.com/docket/washington/wawdce/2:2017cv00217/242137
It is on going or rather about to start. Which makes the timing of the Jinni Tech videos a touch odd as it would not seem sensible to me to launch all that immediately prior to the case being heard. Then again whilst I know embedded systems well the US legal process I know less well.
Though documents of mine on embedded electronics have been used by the Expert Witnesses in a class action in the US and actually in court.
robmneilson
Veteran
I dunno what everyone is mad about really? RED is a company looking to make money, and they mark up their media vastly (much like Panasonic at the dawn of P2) and lock you into their ecosystem. If it shot Cfast cards I'd still have to spend close to that same amount of money for the equivalent of a 480gb Red mag, and then I'd have to worry about how fragile the cards are. I've had Cfast cards die, but not a redmag (knock on wood).
Isn't this true for all brands as well? Does Sony allow you to shoot on off-brand SxS cards on the F55?
Isn't this true for all brands as well? Does Sony allow you to shoot on off-brand SxS cards on the F55?
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