The craziest wrestling match i have ever seen

thefilmaddict

thefilmaddict

Veteran
I started going through some old footage and found this oddity: This wrestling match took place in Georgia on a farm. I don't believe that either one of these fighters are famous, but they put on an amazing show. It involved a folding table, fire and a tall ladder. We were blown away. Obviously, it wasn't real (like most wrestling), but these guys took some big risks for probably very little money...

https://youtu.be/ePKxHB_bMC8
 
That is actually a common match/style in the wrestling world both on the independent circuit and also in the major promotions; WWE, Impact Wrestling and AEW (the newest one and WWE's biggest competitor).

ECW (Extreme Championship Wrestling) in the mid-90s - which was later purchased by WWE (WWF) - is known for creating (or at least popularizing) this style, and they have had matches over the years that have severely injured people.

The risks they are taking are called "spots" in wrestling, and can indeed be extremely dangerous, especially in the indies where many of those guys/gals aren't trained as well as the professionals.

This is one of the most famous ladder spots in the history of wrestling that took place about 20 years ago (25 seconds in):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrjjlXdO39s

There are many more examples like your link (even one from a few weeks ago that is being investigated by Maryland because the match was so brutal).
 
When I was living in Wisconsin in the 1980's, I sort of followed AWA. When we first landed on these shores, many immigrants thought that it was "real". We've never seen anything like that in the old country. Some personalities - Jesse Ventura, Gene Okerlund, Sgt. Slaughter, Jim Brunzell, Adrian Adonis, the Iron Sheik - moved to WWF, while most of the older ones like Mad Dog Vachon, The Crusher and Nick Bockwinkel either retired or went to smaller circuits.

Ah, memories ...
 
thefilmaddict said:
I started going through some old footage and found this oddity: This wrestling match took place in Georgia on a farm. I don't believe that either one of these fighters are famous, but they put on an amazing show. It involved a folding table, fire and a tall ladder. We were blown away. Obviously, it wasn't real (like most wrestling), but these guys took some big risks for probably very little money...

https://youtu.be/ePKxHB_bMC8
Click to expand...

I occasionally work for one of the big wrestling promoters/organizations and while the ultimate outcome(winner) is predetermined, the table and chair shots are real. They don’t make fake folding steel chairs. I shot BTS of a taped segment about a year or so ago and it was mostly outside. It was late winter/early spring and about 20-30 degrees. Absolutely ridiculous. Probably the most miserable I’ve ever been on a shoot in my career(at least top 3). One section involved the two wrestlers fighting in an outdoor ring and there was a chair shot and one of them getting smashed through a table. The executive that was out there overseeing the shoot didn’t like the way the first chair shot looked, so they had to re-do it at least two more times. Keep in mind it’s 20-30 degrees and they have on nothing but pants and tank-tops and one of them is getting hit HARD with a steel chair across his back multiple times. These guys(and gals) are athletes. Even at the highest level, it is a tough business.

I’ve also done a lot over the years for their division that does their docs and have shot interviews with a lot of the older legends and the stories are amazing. It’s a wonder that some of them made it as long as they did and that some of them are still alive, today.
 
In today's wrestling, WWE does make "fake" folding aluminum chairs to be used in matches. And they have thin or pre-cut tables. And the ladders are made out of wood and plastic (and spray-painted black).

In the 90s and up to the mid/late-2000s they used legit heavy-duty steel chairs. And other real props. I would assume concussions probably occurred on a weekly basis if you didn't get your hand up in time.

There's a sacred bond between wrestlers to protect the life of the person(s) you're working with before your own, but these kind of spots were very important for the growth of the companies at the time (and still are in some ways as wrestling viewership continues to decline).

It's all about the safety today and you'll rarely even see blood (real blood from blading the forehead) on live WWE television unless it's a pay-per-view based event (which is now 99% live-streaming).

The independent circuit most likely does not have access to any manufactured props (besides maybe some of the bigger ones with bigger stars/TV deals).
 
Anyone remember this documentary from 20 years ago? I remember it being pretty good, though for true fans the main appeal might be the BTS footage of personalities from that era. Any thoughts about this doc?


Also, last year I read the comic "Is This Guy For Real? The Unbelievable Andy Kaufman" which talks a lot about his life-long love for and occassional oddball involvement in wrestling. Jerry Lawler is a significant character. It's a fun and touching book.
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781626723160

forreal.jpg


Thanks for the links and thoughts on this, you all.
 
I actually remember seeing that Letterman episode when Lawler slapped Kaufman. Naturally, it was staged. Naturally, it still hurt Kaufman badly.
 
I’ve seen the tables being prepped(the support/reinforcement banding being cut through) so that they break more easily. And going back to the stories from some of these guys of the things that did happen during matches that weren’t always planned and they just kept going. A lot of the very good, top guys would go out and almost the entire match would be improvised on the spot, because they were so good, they could read and play off of each other, for sometimes upwards of an hour or more.

We all know that it’s ‘entertainment’ and not ‘real’, but I think it gives some the false impression/perception that what these guys do is not dangerous. Safety is more of a concern now, than 20-30 years ago, but it’s still dangerous. I grew up watching wrestling as a kid in the 80’s and early 90’s. Mostly NWA, WWF(now WWE) wasn’t big in the south at that time. As a little kid you think it’s real, then you learn that it’s not... But as I started shooting a lot of the interviews probably 15 years ago or so, I gained huge respect for them, because of the drive, dedication, work ethic and a lot of other things that they actually do go through and sacrifice to do it. Especially the guys that did it ‘back in the day’.
 
Jim Feeley said:
Anyone remember this documentary from 20 years ago? I remember it being pretty good, though for true fans the main appeal might be the BTS footage of personalities from that era. Any thoughts about this doc?
Click to expand...

Back then, wrestling fans loved it. Any content like that was something which was never seen before. There was no YouTube...no weekly videos that you may have now from Instagram and the like. Plus the business is very different today.

The match with The Rock vs. Mankind is a classic. Helped make Rock's career (with many others). Those years were called the "Attitude Era" (about 97-ish to 2002-ish depending on whom you ask). Leading up to that point it was a do-or-die battle with Ted Turner's WCW (whom had Hogan and the NWO) and it came down to the wire with Vince eventually purchasing WCW after WCW fell apart from mismanagement.

Stone Cold Steve Austin is often credited as saving WWF with the help of personalities like The Rock, DX, etc.

And the word is predetermined. The match outcomes are predetermined but there is nothing fake or not-real about wrestling. Most humans would start crying after simply getting slapped/chopped in the chest by a 250lb man.
 
NorBro said:
nothing fake or not-real about wrestling.
Click to expand...

This is complete nonsense. Of course there is faking. They are performers and in that performing they act. They act, or "fake", that the hits are much bigger than they actually are. They stagger into just the right spot for the choreographed and well-practiced in advance moves. They fake emotions ( anger, surprise, pain ). They fake that a blow caused them to fall, they fake ( feign ) injury, they fake outrage over a call by the ring-ref, and on and on and on. The "feuds" between wrestlers and the trash-talk they do towards each other is fake and also loosely scripted in advance. In the WWE, Vince McMahon controls everything. Nothing takes place without Vince's stamp of approval in advance. McMahon famously ( and smartly ) micro-manages everything.

I've done work for the WWE. Interviewed numerous "greats" in the organization and been backstage at events. ( For an internal WWE documentary piece I had the honor of being assigned to follow Ultimate Warrior and his family around the weekend before he died ). The WWE is a highly professional group and they are generally great to work with. The performers are very good about being willing to do promotion. But it is fake, fake, fake. The bouts are choreographed in advance and the winner pre-determined. There is some minor freelancing within the choreography, but not much. Were a performer to stray very far outside the choreography they would be fired. Not just for the insubordination but because sticking to the choreography is a safety issue. You start straying from the choreography and someone truly gets hurt. Not just fake-hurt.

NorBro, c'mon man. Nothing fake? Do you think "Randy Savage" is a real name?
 
JPNola said:
This is complete nonsense. Of course there is faking. They are performers and in that performing they act. They act, or "fake", that the hits are much bigger than they actually are. They stagger into just the right spot for the choreographed and well-practiced in advance moves. They fake emotions ( anger, surprise, pain ). They fake that a blow caused them to fall, they fake ( feign ) injury, they fake outrage over a call by the ring-ref, and on and on and on. The "feuds" between wrestlers and the trash-talk they do towards each other is fake and also loosely scripted in advance. In the WWE, Vince McMahon controls everything. Nothing takes place without Vince's stamp of approval in advance. McMahon famously ( and smartly ) micro-manages everything.

I've done work for the WWE. Interviewed numerous "greats" in the organization and been backstage at events. ( For an internal WWE documentary piece I had the honor of being assigned to follow Ultimate Warrior and his family around the weekend before he died ). The WWE is a highly professional group and they are generally great to work with. The performers are very good about being willing to do promotion. But it is fake, fake, fake. The bouts are choreographed in advance and the winner pre-determined. There is some minor freelancing within the choreography, but not much. Were a performer to stray very far outside the choreography they would be fired. Not just for the insubordination but because sticking to the choreography is a safety issue. You start straying from the choreography and someone truly gets hurt. Not just fake-hurt.

NorBro, c'mon man. Nothing fake? Do you think "Randy Savage" is a real name?
Click to expand...

Couple of things so you don't sound like an ignoramus in the future when you run your mouth about things you don't know about, including misrepresenting what I said.

- First of all, wrestlers don't fake; they 'sell'. They sell injuries, emotions.
- I'm amused by the irony in which you're explaining in a filmmaking forum that when wrestlers (characters) yell at each other they are acting. lol
- Obviously people are not actually punching and kicking each other in the face on purpose as you'd get knocked out cold from the amount of force they are portraying. We see KOs in the UFC from even the slightest connections. I meant the physical contact is real when it does happen or is meant to happen (like in the OP's example).
- The "bouts" are not truly choreographed. Sometimes wrestlers don't know they are wrestling each other at non-PPV events until a few hours before the card is final. Plus, the schedules are crazy. In WWE, they are flying and/or driving somewhere 300+ days a year. Different people wrestle each other. There is no time to choreograph every step, every move.
- Do some extreme spots have to be approved? Yes, absolutely.
- Do you know what a botch is? They happen daily/nightly.
- The word predetermined was used twice in posts #4 and #10.

Wrestlers tell stories in the squared circle. They discuss spots and these spots are talked-out throughout the match. They speak to each other in the ring. There are banned moves that you cannot do (mostly involving the head and neck), but as long as you stay under/around your time limit - which the referee with an earpiece assists you with - it's the wrestlers' job to put on a good match via their physical and mental training (including timing & awareness and working the crowd). They may and do of course go over some of the more complicated courses of action (usually at big shows), but you don't/can't physically choreograph, step-by-step, a 20-30-40 minute match. The producers of matches could offer some bullet-points for the various stages of the match, but that will also depend on the talent that's involved.

There is no insubordination for any straying 'outside the choreography' because that notion does not exist. You wrestle the match how you talk about wrestling the match. That can include improvising during the match, but you follow-through with what you're communicating. Many times you have to improvise based on the arena's reaction. And how much heat you're getting. Or not getting for that matter. But you don't say you're going to uppercut a guy and then you dropkick him. And WWE is strict about wrestlers following their scripts during the "feuds" and "trash-talk", and that's not loosely scripted but heavily scripted. Today, you almost always have to say exactly what's on paper (or close to it).

Your example of Randy Savage is lame. There are dozens of other names you could have used vs. a name that's actually plausible!

Vince has always controlled everything. This is a well-known fact. But any person who knows the business knows how much it has changed, and how Vince also has slowly changed and has given more and more power to his family, including his son-in-law Triple H who will one day control the company with his wife, Stephanie.
 
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JP, I think you missed part of the quote and that changed the vibe and context of NorBro's comment. Here's a bit of what he wrote:

NorBro said:
And the word is predetermined. The match outcomes are predetermined but there is nothing fake or not-real about wrestling. Most humans would start crying after simply getting slapped/chopped in the chest by a 250lb man.
Click to expand...

Back in the late 90s, or maybe early 00s, an associate editor at DV magazine pitched an article on WWE (or was it still WWF back then?). The first line of the pitch was similar to NorBro's. Something like, "First off, the matches aren't fixed. The outcomes are predetermined." I assigned him the story, the article was great, and a couple years later he was producing backstage segments for them.

And then he became a character. https://www.wwe.com/superstars/ranjinsingh

Under his real name, he's one of the head writers/creatives for WWE. At least, he was last time I checked. A super talented and super nice guy...
 
Jim Feeley said:
JP, I think you missed part of the quote and that changed the vibe and context of NorBro's comment. Here's a bit of what he wrote:

Back in the late 90s, or maybe early 00s, an associate editor at DV magazine pitched an article on WWE (or was it still WWF back then?). The first line of the pitch was similar to NorBro's. Something like, "First off, the matches aren't fixed. The outcomes are predetermined." I assigned him the story, the article was great, and a couple years later he was producing backstage segments for them.

And then he became a character. https://www.wwe.com/superstars/ranjinsingh

Under his real name, he's one of the head writers/creatives for WWE. At least, he was last time I checked. A super talented and super nice guy...
Click to expand...

That's pretty cool. That guy had some big moments on TV with The Great Khali (who he translated English to - at least on screen - as his manager).
 
NorBro said:
That's pretty cool. That guy had some big moments on TV with The Great Khali (who he translated English to - at least on screen - as his manager).
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That's the thing: He was hired as a writer and segment producer, and then when they got Khali, who really couldn't speak much/any English at first, he became his "manager" because he's bilingual. And he dug being a heel. IIRC, there was one bit that went awry where he was thrown down by a wrestler, but missed the landing mat and needed serious not-predetermined knee surgery. #thepriceoffame
 
Jim Feeley said:
Lawler's and Kaufman's long-term fued and close relationship is really nicely covered in the book.
Click to expand...

As a side note, Andy already had a top reputation as Latka Gravas/Vic Ferrari on "Taxi" but the wrestling bit was just a great comedic theater of absurdity. It was a piece of revolutionary performance art to transition it from a wrestling ring to the fake real life. It was no longer some guy behind the mic with his one-liners. It was no longer heel vs. face. It was an immersive stage play with reality traveling to and fro the uncanny valley and it would have been a treat to watch the story unfold. Alas ...
 
NorBro said:
Couple of things so you don't sound like an ignoramus in the future when you run your mouth about things you don't know about, including misrepresenting what I said.
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Really? You went all personal attack on me? lmao

You're ridiculous. And wrong. And behaving stupidly in your emotionalism.



 
You're misinformed like with many other things you post about on this forum, but I never cared enough to correct you each time.

And if you responded in a more polite manner instead of quoting me out-of-context and starting off by spouting, "This is complete nonsense.", I would have too.

I provide you a blue-collared reaction for a blue-collared response.
 
NorBro said:
You're misinformed like with many other things you post about on this forum, but I never cared enough to correct you each time.

And if you responded in a more polite manner instead of quoting me out-of-context and starting off by spouting, "This is complete nonsense.", I would have too.

I provide you a blue-collared reaction for a blue-collared response.
Click to expand...




The response was not in-kind. I characterized your statement as nonsense but made no statement about you personally. You, on the other hand, went personal. And now you've gone and done it again, attacking my credibility as a dvx forum user writ large.

There is no context in which it is true that "nothing fake or not-real about wrestling."

You're out of line, NorBro, and over something ridiculous.

I'd down-vote your post but I personally find down-voting posts to be a pussy move. If you have an issue with a post, state so and explain how.
 
You didn't quote my entire statement and sought out to make me look like a fool. Not once, but twice (with your ending Savage reference). Post #13 even mentioned it and it's exactly right in that you changed the vibe of what I was saying.

Why do you think you can behave how you did and not expect the kind of response I provided you? You think it's okay to tell someone what they are saying is complete nonsense and talk down to a grown man as if I - a lifelong wrestling fan - do not understand how wrestling works?

I responded and you didn't like what I said so you reacted by, a) saying I'm ridiculous and wrong when I presented you over 10 facts any occasional consuming simpleton would know to be true, b) saying I'm "behaving stupidly in your emotionalism".

So is that a personal attack? I don't think so. We're just talking; that's your opinion. But you have nothing else to say, and you flip it around and make it seem like I'm attacking you and "out-of-line".

The bottom line is you called me out "over something ridiculous", and if you worded your thoughts differently then you would have received an entirely different response from me.

Any person put in the same situation would understand.
 
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