THE COFFEE SHOP - comments valued

SteveDunster

SteveDunster

Member
Hi guys

This is my first piece of creative writing for probably 15 years.

I would very much value comments (be they about format or content), but please be gentle to this composer venturing into the uncharted waters of scriptwriting.

Looking forward to any help you may have time to provide.


THE COFFEE SHOP
A girl taking a shower is surprised by a boy...

10 page script in pdf format.

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/12911/1204062349.zip

Thank you

Steve
 
Hey Steve, this was a tough read for a few reasons:

1. Too many time changes... I felt like I never really knew where I was or established any one time enough to get into the story.

2. The main woman is somewhat thin in her development, I don't care about her as the subject.

Things to think about: why should the audiance want to like the leading actress? Is she shy? Does she have a critical flaw? What motivates her?

Just some food for thought-Adam
 
Thank you Adam

I can understand your point about the numbers of time changes, I rather hoped it might be easier to watch than to read - actually the precise times don't actually matter, all the dream-backs are in the order they happen, so maybe I should have put the precise dates in. Maybe too many changes in such a short piece perhaps.

Thank you for your comment about the lead character. I had quite a detailed picture of her in my head. I shall re-read and see if maybe I didn't get much of it into the script after all.

Thank you again Adam, appreciate it

Steve
 
No problem. I feel like any short needs the characters to have very clear motivations as they don't have much time to be developed. As an exercise try and write the short again with the lead having an one goal that is constantly thwarted. It's a really great writing exercise I try and use when ever I know something needs to change.-Adam
 
hey steve,

you have some nice touches here. i have a few questions for you.

what is the one thing you want someone to take away from this? (even if it's another question.)

what do you see as the prime conflict of your piece?

how does your lead character change from the start of the piece and the end of the piece?

i think the opening is too long - you could do this in a quick flashback at some point... my point being that you always want to cut into a story late and make the audience catch up (to a certain extent.)

without more character motivation her being nervous about going to the job interview, and the scene with her dad, don't serve a lot of purpose in your overall story. maybe if she goes back and talks to her dad about the relationship problems, it would make sense structurally, but as it is now it's unmotivated.

please take all i say in a positive helpful way. as you said in your first post your are making your first foray into screenwriting. so, be proud of doing that. and be more proud of putting yourself on the line to criticism. it's the best way for you to improve.

i know because of that you have to have some emotional ties to the story, but i don't see or feel them. show those things to me (and an audience) and i think you'll have something that can be very good!
 
HDkilledFILM. said:
No problem. I feel like any short needs the characters to have very clear motivations as they don't have much time to be developed. As an exercise try and write the short again with the lead having an one goal that is constantly thwarted. It's a really great writing exercise I try and use when ever I know something needs to change.-Adam
Click to expand...

Hey yeah!

After I'd sat and thought about it for a while, I can see how that would really push things along.

Thanks

Steve
 
Cliff Wildman said:
hey steve,
...
i know because of that you have to have some emotional ties to the story, but i don't see or feel them. show those things to me (and an audience) and i think you'll have something that can be very good!
Click to expand...

Hey Cliff

Fantastic post. Thank you.

I really like the questions you've asked. The fact that I'm having difficulty finding good answers to them is revealing. I love your suggestion about starting the story "late."

...but I would like to dwell on your last point about "emotional ties." You may have struck on the reason I gave up 15 years ago and the reason I nearly gave up at the weekend.

I wrote the script you have just read last week and enjoyed doing so. Then I started another that I am writing now - it is of a much more emotionally challenging subject.

Then it happened. I connected with the story in such a raw and emotionally charged way that it really frightened me. It felt horrible. It is this that happened to me 15 years ago - it frightened me so much then that I stopped writing.

I wonder if your observation about the "emotional ties" is referring to this. Is it possible that the frighteningly raw emotion is me approaching a threshold I have to cross in order to get the emotion in the writing you are talking about?

As a musician there would seem to be definite parallels. As a conductor I have helped many an instrumentalist face their fear and cross that threshold. It wasn't until you mentioned it that it occured to me that it might be true for writing too.

So what can I say Cliff, thank you for your technical suggestions - but I suspect you may have opened up a whole new issue for development in my writing - developing the same emotional commitment in my writing, as in my music.

Thank you

Steve
 
Yes the multiple time changes are highly confusing and distracting in written form.
The dramatic premise isn't evident enough. This story could definitely be visually more compelling as is though. Having said that the question I have is who is your potential audience on this one? I know how hard writing can be and I say good on you for writing again.
 
STYLZ said:
...
Having said that the question I have is who is your potential audience on this one? I know how hard writing can be and I say good on you for writing again.
Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to read it and comment.

Regarding my target audience....my wife says it's a "chick-flick." I wrote it for some female students and they seem highly delighted with it too.


...that said I have learnt a great deal from the posts in this thread. Some things I can use to help in Rev 2, other things will for sure help in the script I am writing now.

Thank you again

Steve
 
For what it's worth, I don't think the time changes are too much of a problem. With a filter or something, I don't think even the slowest audience member should get overly confused when this plays out on the screen. And reading the other comments, all the reader / viewer has to realize is that they happened in chronological order (the flashbacks).

Mine is just one point of view but I felt like the story, as it was laid out, wasn't too hard to follow, but it packed maybe too much into too little. There was a lot that happened, but it happened so fast and jumped to such short instances, that there wasn't enough of a chance for us to get to know the characters that well. In otherwords, conveying the information that a lot of events happened came slightly at the expense of investing us in the characters living those events.

For example, I think you got off to a good start. The opening few pages got me invested in both characters. It was an awkward, interesting situation, where the characters found a solution, and I definitely walked out of it liking the Doug character and at least feeling for Rosie somewhat because she survived embarrassment.

I think if you had kept that level of pacing and detail in your other scenes, the script as a whole would have been highly engaging. It may have ended up longer than you intended, but you would have maintained that high level of quality and character interaction.

Once the shower scene was over, the nature of the scenes changed for me.

It became about getting across that event X happened, then event Y happened, then event Z happened, without going into the same level of depth.

What I mean is that you, as the writer, simply TOLD us that she got the job, told us that he asked her out, told us that they fell in love. But we never actually SAW her get the job (win over her interviewer the way Doug pulled her out of the fire in the shower). We never SAW what made them decide to start dating (there must have been another awkward moment as work colleagues that they had to overcome, much like the shower).

As the writer, you did allow us to SEE how they met, and it had me. But then you kind of slipped into a point-form of how the rest of the story was supposed to go, and didn't follow through with the characters you were well on your way to developing in the opening shower scene.

And I know you are capable of developing them, because you have already done part of the work. I would suggest allowing us to SEE these other events transpire, with the associated conflicts and awkwardness...

That will make us care whether Doug comes to meet her at the end, and sad if he doesn't make it...
 
armadillo said:
For what it's worth...
Click to expand...

Brilliant - thank you. I think you have so put your finger on it.

I was given a guide length of 10 minutes. I wrote the shower scene the way I wanted to but got guilty about how long it had got, but I justified it to myself that we needed to know who they were.

Then I tried to tie the bow on the rest of the story in the pages I had left.

I didn't do this consciously, but when I read your post it came clear to me what had happened.

I would very much like to revisit the later scenes, pretending I have no length restriction and see where that takes me. My feeling is that it would be a lot more fulfilling to write, so presumably it would also make a better read.

Thank you

Steve
 
just a little thing. I don't know if you plan to shoot this all yourself, but I usually try to stay away from writing camera shot/direction into my scripts. While people might mentally agree with what you wrote, sometimes it can be distracting from story itself.
 
Thank you for the tip. No I don't intend making it myself.

I can see how this happened. All my previous creative writings have been narrative. This is the first screenplay I've put together. As a composer, all the scripts I've been sent have camera angles in - so I guess I assumed that was the right thing to do.

Thank you again

Steve
 
Steve, just heard some of your music!

Keep writing, if you hit an emotional wall then your on the right track!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hey thanks HD!

That emotional wall is a pretty scary place to be, and when you don't know if its a good thing or a bad you don't know whether to blast through or runaway.

I really appreciate your clarity on this. I'm gonna stick with it this time and see where it takes me.

Hope to see you the other side of The Wall

Steve
 
Ok, I really enjoyed this.

But first, I know it was mentioned before but it is not our job, as screenwriters, to tell a story via camera angles. I know you have the perfect idea in your head as to how the story should play out visually it will only lead to trouble to leave camera directions in UNLESS they are absolutely vital to your story.

In terms of seeing the film produced I think it will be extremely difficult for an audience to differentiate the time differences displayed. I think if you spread it out even more...possibly years? You could a) create visual distinctions that could distinguish a change in time. and b) allow our imaginations to construct a much more vivid account of the love affair. As an audience I don't think we are conned, conned in a good sense since it is a filmmakers job to create a surreal environment to tell a story, into believing a significant emotional investment could be made in two months that would force DOUG to not only leave her but realize how important she is to him.

I think it is very very promising and I especially appreciate the dark open ending. But I hope you agree that if we can assume they had spent a year or two dating the loss of DOUG would be much more substantial. I was uncertain about the ring. Was that an engagement ring or merely a token of his affection. If it was an engagement ring it makes the two month timeline even less believable (not to beat a dead horse).

I found no difficulty understanding the jump between times but merely felt it a tad difficult to read the script without being interrupted by the camera directions.

I think the premise is exceptional and an extremely interesting take on a "chick-flick." If this is your first attempt in quite some time I really do want to applaud you. The stage direction was well written and the dialogue was simple in a very good way. I hope you take the notes that have been given to you and attempt a re-write. I will be very excited where this story ends up...

Possibly a time-fest entry?
 
thematthewbone said:
Ok, I really enjoyed this.

....

I think the premise is exceptional and an extremely interesting take on a "chick-flick." If this is your first attempt in quite some time I really do want to applaud you. The stage direction was well written and the dialogue was simple in a very good way. I hope you take the notes that have been given to you and attempt a re-write. I will be very excited where this story ends up...

Possibly a time-fest entry?
Click to expand...

Wow - I really appreciate your excellent post, thank you.

I think your recommendation to deepen the shown relationship in order to feel the loss of DOUG more - is awesome!

I wrote this piece in response to a call from a production company who put out a concept, and it is the usual trade-off as to how much you feel you can you can deviate from the given concept.

I've now won the competition and they've selected this script to go ahead for production. I'm meeting with the director soon as to any proposed changes and I will do some work ahead of that meeting with regard to the cool suggestions made by people like your good-self. Clearly what actually goes into the final draft now is partly down to the director - but I really like the idea of showing a deeper relationship (I need to find out how much flexibility I've got on the length of the film).

Now that they've bought the script, it is obviously not available for the TimeFest.
But I've had an idea I'd really like to create for the TimeFest. I'll write the script and offer it up - oooooooooh, HOW DO MAKE A SCRIPT AVAILABLE FOR A FEST? Do I just upload it like I did this one and create a thread with a link to it saying a TimeFest script is available?

The idea I've had is more emotional than action/sci-fi/sfx, so it is possible it doesn't get chosen, but is such a strong story (from my point of view anyway) I want to tell it, so I'm going to write it anyway. It is for sure the far side of my emotional wall - but I've been encouraged, by the good people on this forum, to go there. So I'm gonna.

Yes, it has been some 15 years since I did any creative writing. It feels great to be doing it again - and I cannot express my gratitude sufficiently to you, and the other guys here, for your wonderful encouragement.

Being a newbee, my skin is still a little thin and I couldn't have wished for a better blend of helpful suggestions and encouragement.


Thank you to everyone who has responded.

Steve
 
Hey guys

For your interest, here is Revision 3 of THE COFFEE SHOP, which goes into production on Saturday.

Thank you so much for the huge amounts of help you've provided. I felt a lot more confident as to what to change and why when revisited and I'm very happy with it now.

If you have the time, I hope you enjoy it....

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/12911/1204764929.zip

Thanks again

Steve
 
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