The Big Difference between HVX200 & HMC150

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bigox

Well-known member
Is there really any difference between these 2 cameras, that makes one superior to the other, other than the fact that one uses SD cards & one uses P2 cards? And other than the tape deck on the HVX?

Also, a question about SD cards vs P2 cards: If I'm not mistaken the big advantage to SD cards vs P2 cards, is that they are cheaper, they hold more data and thus you can buy more, basically eliminating the need to offload on site. Am I correct?

And to just go a little deeper on SD cards regarding offloading and editing using Sony Vegas: Are you going to run into the usual headaches with SD cards as you do with P2 cards when you use Vegas? Such as needing the Raylight middle man?

Is there anything else I need to know when comparing and choosing between these 2 cameras?
 
You have the differences pretty well understood. Most users of p2 would consider it a more reliable media. The part you made no mention of is that the hmc cams record to the AVCHD codec, whereas the Hvx and Hvx cams record to DVCProHD. Both codecs work, but the latter records more color info, and is an I-frame codec which in the big picture, is better for editing.

Can't help you with the Vegas question.

Also, if you are considering any of these cams, the hpx series should be considered also.

Grant
 
Also, if you are considering any of these cams, the hpx series should be considered also.
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having owned an hvx200 and used an hmc150 extensively, i can confidently say that the hpx170 is far better in low light than the hvx200. and as grant mentioned records in what many would consider a more "professional" and superior-quality codec than the hmc150

ive been using p2 for about the last 5 years - back when an 8gig card was well over $1000. and yes, the perception is that P2 is expensive relative to SD cards. but when you factor in the reliability of P2 by comparison, the argument gets far weaker. i dont think ive EVER heard of a P2 card failing. but ive SEEN two SD cards fail in the last month.
 
AVCHD for Vegas does not require Raylight.

However, AVCHD is, as pointed out, an inferior codec, so there's a trade-off for every advantage.

Not to mention the increased functionality of the 170/200 over the 150 -- variable frame rates, etc.
 
1. So the HMC150 doesn't need Raylight for Vegas? The the HMC150 files don't come out as .HMX files?

2. Also regarding the reliability of SD cards, aren't the high end versions quite reliable and it's the cheap ones that are unreliable? Is that fairly accurate?

Our situation is that we have an HVX with 2 p2 cards right now. But if the HMC150 doesn't need Raylight for Vegas. We can probably sell the HVX200 and with that money, buy an HMC150 and enough SD cards to be ready to go. Whereas if we keep the HVX, we have to purchase at least 1 more p2 card, probably a card reader for offloading on site, possibly even another laptop to be compatible with the card reader and Raylight.

Am I on the right track here?
 
Don't know about your laptop issues, but the Panna card reader is compatible with most everything as far as I know. You may need additional drives or a larger drive in your laptop to accommodate the file sizes. That is one place where AVCHD has an advantage; smaller native files.

You didn't mention what size cards you currently have, or the length of your shoot, but if you aren't aware, there are some modes such as 720P native which will significantly increase your P2 recording times and still produce very nice images. Your finished product delivery method will influence this to a large extent. If you are shooting very long form, you might want to consider direct to disc type hardware which will also record direct to edit format. A search will give you some ideas, but there are plenty of options. For long form, I wouldn't be too happy depending on a single large SD card; you are putting all your eggs in one flimsy basket. A better approach would be a cam that has dual slots with redundant recording, or adding the previously mentioned direct to disc option. I would recommend this approach with either format if it is a one chance shoot.

Just opinion here: If I had a 200a model, I would keep that and prefer it over a HMC150. It is simply more cam with a better codec. If you have an original HVX200, that might change my opinion as the 200a model has an improved (better IQ) chipset and is more sensitive as well. At this point, I'm not sure I would trade either for a HMC150 and might look for some other options. I have both P2 and SD cams, and given a choice, P2 is the winner hands down. Though others are perfectly happy with SD cams and AVCHD, I consider it best suited to B-Cam use, or more informal work like weddings.

As was previously mentioned, in the econo class of cams, a HPX170 is the best Panna cam of that generation by a fair margin, and can be bought used at some real bargain prices. And, the price of P2 is slowly coming down with some occasional bargains on the used market.

Grant
 
Let me give you a little bit more info so you're fully aware of everything.

The camera is a HVX205A.

We shoot microbudget feature films. A normal full day of shooting will usually be about 3 hours for a full day of shooting. Sometimes as much as 5 hours.

We'd use the 720/24pn setting probably 95 percent of the time.

We currently have 2 R series 16G P2 Cards

Are SD cards unreliable? How would they be compared to the reliability of say, tapes in a DVX100B?

Honestly, as a DVX user, what worries me about HD is that you dump your footage onto a drive and then erase the card (SD or P2) and that's it. I'm used to DVX tapes, where if something bad happened to a drive, at least we always have the taped footage. I just find that thought a little scary.

If there is a reliable HMC option, it's attractive to me due to the fact that I wouldn't have to invest money in more p2 cards, a card reader and the raylight software to be compatible with Sony Vegas, which is the editing system we use.

Right now the scariest thing I'm seeing in this thread and the major hesitation I'd have about selling our HVX and going with HMC is the talk of the SD cards not being very reliable. How common is this? I've been reading up on all of this quite a bit and I do remember HMC & SD card folks saying that as long as you you buy high quality SD cards, you'll be fine. Is that accurate?
And when you say "go bad" I assume you mean, losing everything that was shot.
 
high quality SD cards, you'll be fine. Is that accurate?
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no. thats not entirely accurate. spend a half hour google searching. ive yet to hear of ANY brand at ANY price of SD card you cant find SOME story of failure. (well there is that $300 one thats made entirely of titanium or something...)

i have NEVER heard of a P2 failure that wasnt attributable to user error.

personally, ive never had an SD card fail. but ive seen SO MANY folks who have, that i get uneasy every time i hit record and stop on my GH2s

the thing i like about the P2 metrics are with a pair of same-size cards, you can shoot to one while you offload the other - ESPECIALLY in features where you dont just roll and roll uninterrupted.
 
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Can't remember the name of the software just now, but there is an app out there that allows you to offload to duplicate drives at the same time. I use the mil spec Maxell iVDR drives if I need to wrangle in the field. They are specified for drop, temp, etc, supposed to be very reliable.

What WGZN said.

If you deliver to Standard Def and care to record SD, you can record to P2 and tape at the same time with the HVX

I'm not trying to rip on the 150, many people use it and love it. Much of the cam is very similar to the HPX170, without P2, and some other stuff. Not sure how the dollars work for your proposed downgrade, but the AVCHD codec would be my biggest concern since it is not as good as DVCProHD. The quality of your recording and ability to edit will be degraded. How does that compare to saving a few hundred bucks and all the trouble to do a days shoot?

To get a real benefit in IQ using AVCHD, think about the MOS Panna cams like the AC130 since they are full raster.

In the big picture, a few more P2 cards or an on cam recorder is all you need. All it takes is M O N E Y.

Grant
 
ive been using raylight/sony vegas/hvx200/p2 combination for a few years now. everyone speaks of "low light" but i dont shoot at night so for me the hvx200 still works for me. not to hijack the thread but if you're looking to move up a cheaper choice may be the DSLR route if you're so in love with SD cards.
another choice may be adobe onlocation which records directly from your camera to your laptop.
 
you say you shoot "feature" type work. if thats truly the case and you dont need servo zooming. i say go with a DSLR. this is what they are MADE FOR! they are absolute crap for ENG/run and gun. but for controlled feature work. they are AWESOME in most cases.

i say sell your video camera and put the money into a 5dlll and rent high end glass
 
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