The Best Sound

scotman

scotman

Well-known member
Hey guys. Ive got a DVX100b, with a Rode mic. Nothing really fancy. Cant seem to get a handle on the best sound though. I try to make sure that my audio never peaks, but for some reason, on playback, I cant seem to help always getting the audio where it crackles the speakers. Should I invest in a better mic, drop the audio controls on the DVX even lower and raise the volume in post? I currently export the audio straight from AE after Ive done some editing in premiere. I can throw up a clip of my latest video if needed. BUt any advice would be greatly appreciated

dg
 
One more thing. i put the final audio into Audition to see if I had any peeks, and crazy thing is that where it makes speakers rattle, its way under the peek line. cheers
 
If they aren't peaking in the waveforms then Im guessing its your speakers that are the problem. Have you tried them on different ones?
 
Really?? I didnt even think about that. I guess its a certain frequency that must make them rattle.. thanks. i didnt even think about that, even though it sounds silly.

Let me ask you one more thing. Ive heard that after effects isnt really a great audio editing program. well, what would be the correct procedure for audio editing. I capture in premiere, edit the timeline, bring into AE, add effects (ive already edited sound in audition) then i export a uncompressed avi. sound and video out of AE. is that the right way to do it.

cheers
 
scotman said:
Let me ask you one more thing. Ive heard that after effects isnt really a great audio editing program. well, what would be the correct procedure for audio editing. I capture in premiere, edit the timeline, bring into AE, add effects (ive already edited sound in audition) then i export a uncompressed avi. sound and video out of AE. is that the right way to do it.
cheers
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That sounds about right to me. I will also use SoundForge and all it's tools to tweak any problem audio. Another thing I always try to do is run a seperate audio recorder with one channel at zero and the other at -10db so I always have a backup...the you have the camera, a channel at zero and a channel at -10 if you need it. (it has saved my ass more than once!)
 
HHHMMM. interesting. what do you actually mean? My camcorder is set to 48k(16 bit) and -50db. should i change that setting. I have a tascman recorder, its a pretty big unit. how would I get power to this if i were recording out without a power supply. or is there a unit that you recommend for this situation. If i had about 500 dollars to spend on a good mic with lots of wind resistance, what would you get. cheers
 
scotman said:
HHHMMM. interesting. what do you actually mean? My camcorder is set to 48k(16 bit) and -50db. should i change that setting. I have a tascman recorder, its a pretty big unit. how would I get power to this if i were recording out without a power supply. or is there a unit that you recommend for this situation. If i had about 500 dollars to spend on a good mic with lots of wind resistance, what would you get. cheers
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You said you have a Rode mic but you didn't say WHICH Rode mic. 48k/16bit is the correct setting for audio for digital video but the -50dB sensitivity might or might not be correct - it's hard to say without knowing exactly what mic you're using and how you're connecting it to the camera. As for the 'crackling' you wrote about, if the mic is especially hot and the input sensitivity setup for a lower output mic, it's possible to overload and clip the inputs even though the recording level meters in the camera look just fine.

Most mics generally used for video don't have a lot of wind resistance built-in to the mic and require some sort of additional wind protection when used out of doors. It's not a quality issue - it's just the way these types of mic work. Some of the most expensive professional mics are also the most sensitive to wind noise. Sometimes it seems like the $2000 Schoeps is so sensitive to wind that it'll rumble at a gnat's sneeze. So as to what to spend a $500 budget on, just what do you want to use it for, what do you want to record where?
 
I believe its the NT 2. It has phantom power. it wasnt version 1. I cant find anything on the mic that actually says which model. I am connected to the camera using the XLR connection and with phantom power. This mic doesnt have a slot for batteries. What you are saying about the input sensitivity is starting to make more sense now.

Alot of my recordings seem to be either in big halls, like a church where i am doing an interview, or outdoors where someone is telling a story in front of a scary castle etc. I just want great sound, i see guys holding these huge boom mics into great camcorders. the mic is so big that they carry it on a harness around there waist. But the quality, whether outdoors indoors, crowd or one person always sounds great.

Hope this info helps. Cheers
 
scotman said:
I believe its the NT 2. It has phantom power. it wasnt version 1. I cant find anything on the mic that actually says which model. I am connected to the camera using the XLR connection and with phantom power. This mic doesnt have a slot for batteries. What you are saying about the input sensitivity is starting to make more sense now.

Alot of my recordings seem to be either in big halls, like a church where i am doing an interview, or outdoors where someone is telling a story in front of a scary castle etc. I just want great sound, i see guys holding these huge boom mics into great camcorders. the mic is so big that they carry it on a harness around there waist. But the quality, whether outdoors indoors, crowd or one person always sounds great.

Hope this info helps. Cheers
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The harness and bag on their waist is probably a field mixer and maybe a brace of wireless receivers <grin>. The mic is the small thingy hiding inside the big furry zepplin windscreen out on the end of the pole.

An NT2 is a broadcaster's studio mic, not at all suited for field use with a camera. Take a look at the mics on the Rode website www.rodemic.com and let us know which one matches yours.
 
scotman said:
http://usa.rodemic.com/microphone.php?product=NTG-1

this is the mic. i know it for sure. I made sure the dimensions were the same.. thats it. what else should i look at?
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The tech specifications page there for that mic will tell you its output is rated at -36dBv. That's many time stronger than the -50dB sensitivity your camera input is set to expect. It's possible that it is simply overloading the camera input preamplifier before the level controls ever get a chance to do anything about it. The first thing I'd try is to get an inline attenuator (a 'pad') such as this one http://store.shure.com/store/shure/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsPage/productID.104210500 to bring the mic signal more into line with what the camera expects.
 
what if i set my camera to -60db. am i in the same situation? When i get this piece, I connect XLR cable to camcorder, Shure liitle piece, the microphone. HOw many DB would i have to set it to? Any thought about what kind of mic i can get for the 500 price. cheers
 
scotman said:
what if i set my camera to -60db. am i in the same situation? When i get this piece, I connect XLR cable to camcorder, Shure liitle piece, the microphone. HOw many DB would i have to set it to? Any thought about what kind of mic i can get for the 500 price. cheers
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That's even worse, farther away from the mic's output. -35 from the mic, cut another -15 from the pad, puts the signal at -50, a perfect match (theoretically) to the input's -50 expected signal level. Of course, the 'crackling' you wrote about could be a bad speaker, any number of other things, so it's an experiment until you do it.

As for the mic that's the best use of your $500 - just what exactly do you want to do with it?
 
Do interviews indoors and outdoors really.. try to capture as little ambient noise as possible.. I guess what my mic does but something better with more wind resistancy. Though like you said, this is not a FULL PROOF plan. those are the big things i do.

I was thinking of going wireless, like a lapel, but i dont think you get the same quality, and it also means carrying more crap around with you. my wifey no likey. LOL :)
 
scotman said:
Do interviews indoors and outdoors really.. try to capture as little ambient noise as possible.. I guess what my mic does but something better with more wind resistancy.
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Why not just take that $500 and buy a good shock-mount and windjammer? I haven't checked the latest prices, but you should be able to get a suitable Rycote for your budget. Wind resistance isn't usually built into the mic (except for certain handheld ENG mics), and is usually a matter of specialized after-market accessories.

scotman said:
I was thinking of going wireless, like a lapel, but i dont think you get the same quality, and it also means carrying more crap around with you. my wifey no likey. LOL :)
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You're going to have to throw a lot more than $500 at a wireless system before you start getting your money's worth. Have you considered using a wired lav?
 
scotman said:
Do interviews indoors and outdoors really.. try to capture as little ambient noise as possible.. I guess what my mic does but something better with more wind resistancy. Though like you said, this is not a FULL PROOF plan. those are the big things i do.

I was thinking of going wireless, like a lapel, but i dont think you get the same quality, and it also means carrying more crap around with you. my wifey no likey. LOL :)
Click to expand...

For indoors a hypercardioid is preferred to a shotgun, so perhaps an Oktava would be an option. For outdoors where wind is a factor, there's no need for a new mic, there's nothing wrong with the Rode. Spend some money instead on proper wind protection and a shockmount for it - you could do far worse than a Rycote S-300 setup (www.rycote.com). First and formost consideration is to get your mics close to the subject so if you don't already have a boom pole one is in order. For good sound in interviews and dialog the mic should be close enough that your subject could reach out and touch it. Using the mic too far away is the A number 1 cause of sound problems.
 
Thanks for all your help today. Its great when these forums bring FANTASTIC results.

Just for action points for me. I want to make sure i get things clear and the right pieces. If and when you have time if you can point me to specific links for purchases.

1. Shotgun Mic for indoor interviews. I want to not have the echo hall effect.
2. Shockmount for my Rode
3. Boom Pole for my Rode and posibly universal for the good Shotgun Mic.

Thanks Steve. Cheers
 
scotman said:
Thanks for all your help today. Its great when these forums bring FANTASTIC results.

Just for action points for me. I want to make sure i get things clear and the right pieces. If and when you have time if you can point me to specific links for purchases.

1. Shotgun Mic for indoor interviews. I want to not have the echo hall effect.
2. Shockmount for my Rode
3. Boom Pole for my Rode and posibly universal for the good Shotgun Mic.

Thanks Steve. Cheers
Click to expand...

Almost got it. You already have a decent shotgun mic, which is what is used outdoors and in non-reflective environments like a sound stage, large auditorium, etc. You want to add a hypercardioid mic to your kit, the goto mic for use indoors in everyday spaces like typical homes and offices, etc. There is less need for wind protection indoors, though even indoors you still should use the foam cover that comes with the mic since even moving the boom pole in still air makes a "wind" over the mic, but you need better protection from wind outdoors. Next, both of those mics are best used on the end of a boom pole in order to get them close to the subject. And finally, both of them need a shock absorbing mount to mount them on the boom pole to prevent handling thumps etc. And there are a few other odds and ends - you need something to hold the boom, either a person working with you or a stand and clamp arrangement if you're working alone.
 
If you want to learn how to get great sound, you need to get the Sound DVD produced by our local gurus Barry Green, Matt Gettemeier and David Jimerson. You can find out more about it, and place an order, here:

http://dvxuser.com/articles/dvxshop/SoundDVD/

It gives practical advice for getting great sound and shows that it's not just the equipment, but also how you use the equipment.
 
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