The art of firmware update warfare

squig

squig

Veteran
Ok I don't know about the rest of you but I'm done sitting on my arse whingeing and listening to others whinge about a camera that we don't even have yet.

I need this camera to be all it can be so I'm gonna go on a quaker speak truth to power trip.

I think a dvxuser group insurgency is in order here. A multi-pronged global attack on every panasonic office around the world should get our message across. I can draft a letter on behalf of us all if the mods are cool with that. I can compile a list of names and addresses if a volunteer dvxer from each territory can print them out and post them, snail mail is a more personal and effective way to communicate than an email. maybe sonic can mail letters to the japanese execs.

Kholi, Hunter, and Philip have gone to the trouble to be crash test dummies so the least the rest of us can do is post a few letters making panasonic aware of the flaws in their new toy and what they need to do to fix it and make it the real camcorder/dslr killer it can be.

so far I suggest we include in our list of demands-
24p/25p mjpeg with at least 20% more data per frame (same overall bit-rate as 30p) but a higher quality option say 40Mbps if the GH1 can do it.
24Mbps AVCHD and native 24p
plus maybe an option to record without sound and allocate more bits to movie mode.

There are lot's of other things that you want like live HDMI out and sound level control and metering but I think it's important to concentrate on the crucial stuff like RESOLUTION!

Anybody with any negative comments like "ur wasting ur time, they're not gonna listen" can stfu now I don't need to hear any more negativity I hear enough of that from people when I tell them I'm shooting a feature with a DSLR and my own money.
 
I hear ya on a lot of levels but the petition started might be addressing many of your concerns.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=170343

I too am doing a feature length as a pilot for a series. The pilot is being shot with ultra 16mm. The following 2 episodes are going to be shot with the GH1. Everybody in my circle thinks I'm brain damaged considering what's at risk. Can't get mad at them because when they're right, they're right. Ain't going to stop me and it sounds like it won't stop you. Keep pluggin' and I'll see you at the Oscars.
 
Honestly, I think for the price, what the GH1 offers is nice.

60i goes to 24p nicely.

Compared to the D90 this is a huge step with regards to manual control.

I don't think I need any of the things that you mention, and if I did, I'd rent/buy a RED One or a Scarlet when that comes out.

I understand your fight though, and support it, just think it's more futile than asking for manual controls for the D90.

Best either way though!! Hope pre production is going nicely.
 
artforme said:
Honestly, I think for the price, what the GH1 offers is nice.

60i goes to 24p nicely.

Compared to the D90 this is a huge step with regards to manual control.

I don't think I need any of the things that you mention, and if I did, I'd rent/buy a RED One or a Scarlet when that comes out.

I understand your fight though, and support it, just think it's more futile than asking for manual controls for the D90.

Best either way though!! Hope pre production is going nicely.
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:thumbup:
 
Count me in. If they simply gave us 720-24P it would be worth the effort. It would be nice to get some of the people Pansonic might listen to (Barry Green, Philip Bloom, etc) involved as well.
 
they're not the borg

pre-prod is coming along, scriptwriting that's another thing entirely

kholi are you satisfied with the codec for 35mm transfer? it looks about 90% there but I haven't seen enough raw footage to judge.
 
squig said:
hehe, only thing stopping me is death and taxes.

Is TV in Canadia 720 or 1080?
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1080i and 720p are what I can get through my cable provider at the moment. Unsure as to what some broadcasters require. They all have different answers.

Only death and hangovers can stop me. Taxes aren't a problem with my income.
 
hehe.

good boz cause it was you that got me started on this jihad/crusade. You mentioned something about red communicating with their customers and got me thinking about how this is the biggest panasonic user forum as far as I know and we haven't had any communication with them at all. They're doing a great job of "winning hearts and minds".
 
squig said:
they're not the borg

pre-prod is coming along, scriptwriting that's another thing entirely

kholi are you satisfied with the codec for 35mm transfer? it looks about 90% there but I haven't seen enough raw footage to judge.
Click to expand...

This is offtopic, and I might be crushing your dreams but: unless you have named talent in your feature, a decent high concept script (decent defined by something more than you and your best friends will watch), decent production value (above film school caliber), and enough money to go and shop your feature around at festivals, you'd might as well stop dreaming about 35mm Transfers.

A realistic distribution target is Blu Ray, and yeah, this thing wil make excellent Blu Rays.

If you EVER get a 35mm Transfer, you won't have to worry about how it'll transfer because the people PAYING for it will clean it up so that they stand a better chance at getting their money back.

35mm Transfer is the last thing you really should be worrying about.

I implore you to find a Blu Ray player and purchase THE SIGNAL. XL-H1 + P+S 35mm Adapter. PLEASE look at what they did under the limitations this system imposes on its operators. Then realze that even though the XL-H1's compression is a bit more robust, the GH-1 will hold up in just about every situation presented in that feature film.

They had three or more of the things I listed, namely incredible production value on a shoe-string budget.

Again, that's just my opinion on it. Would I like updates, upgrades? Yeah! Am I worried about it? No.
 
I've heard the argument that it's good enough for joe sixpack and we don't count. Well last time I went to joe sixpack's house he had a home cinema with a big-arse plasma and blue-ray, things that this indie filmmaker doesn't have. He might not like how his dog looks like it's going through a star trek transporter when it runs around the yard @ 1080i AVCHD.

accepting donations of beer or plasma.
 
Not talking about joe-six pack. Talking about the likelyhood of your feature even getting near a 35mm Transfer. Did you just glance over my post?

Even if you were shooting RED this would probably STILL be the likelihood unless you're backed by money to begin with. Then again, you'd probably be backed by an awesome script, decent talent in front of the screen, so-on-and-so-forth.
 
Kholi it's an alternate universe down here. The film business down here is kept afloat with government funding and american productions shot here, most local films lose money at the box office. I know of more than one film that had shocking production values by our standards that got funding for a 35mm print and distribution. I won't be following their lead however.

I approach the film business like I did the music business. I setup my studio and get quality results on a minimal budget. I produce and market quality product that finds it's target audience and I attract attention from buyers with deep pockets. Now that all sounds very suit-like and not very creative but I'm just letting you know I have things covered from all angles. There's always obstacles and pitfalls but that's life. You just try to be as prepared as you can.

As for distribution it's not a major concern, the script when it's ready will sell itself with a bit of smoke and no GH1 mirrors.

As for named talent......hehe, Mel Gibson was a nobody when Miller made Mad Max and it grossed 100 million and that was back in the day when 100 million was worth something. I'm not trying to make 100 million I just want to tell a good story and make it look good and show it. Money flows if ya do it right.

I do things the hard way with my own money so I won't be forced into some blade runner happy ending. If a studio offered me a few million to make my film I'd tell them to piss off. But I'll happily flog it to them for a few more million when I'm happy with it.

Always like to hear what you have to say Kholi and everyone else, I'm always learning something from you guys but don't confuse my youthful exuberance for naiveite (not that I'm not naive about a great many things) it's just part of australian culture to come across as a wanker and I have some german arrogance in the blood to boot.

I know I'm the new indie kid on the block here but I was once the record producer kid and I walked away with local grammy equivalent (ARIA) for my first album. I'm a dreamer but I'm not dreamin.

You're not worried cause you've had your hand on it. I won't be worried when you stop yappin and show me some wicked ****. Output is something I always worry about until it's put out.

so do I get to hang out with the cool kids?
 
Kholi said:
This is offtopic, and I might be crushing your dreams but: unless you have named talent in your feature, a decent high concept script (decent defined by something more than you and your best friends will watch), decent production value (above film school caliber), and enough money to go and shop your feature around at festivals, you'd might as well stop dreaming about 35mm Transfers.

A realistic distribution target is Blu Ray, and yeah, this thing wil make excellent Blu Rays.

If you EVER get a 35mm Transfer, you won't have to worry about how it'll transfer because the people PAYING for it will clean it up so that they stand a better chance at getting their money back.

35mm Transfer is the last thing you really should be worrying about.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. A solid product is what buyers/ broadcasters/ distributors are looking for. If they see that in your film/ video they'll have no problem fronting the money for transfers, uprezzing, P&A and whatever it takes to get asses in the seats. Just make it the best damn thing your talents and budget allows.
 
Squig, the best people to tell you whether or not 17mb AVCHD is "good enough" for a 35mm transfer, are the people who do them like swissfx among many others but the codec and camera is so new they won't know what they heck your talking about. If you're serious about transfer to 35mm you should consider your workflow from start to finish. But really anything thing short of VHS is good enough for transfer to 35mm, if all the other production elements are very, very very strong. So many examples out there of dv transfers to 35mm that made for compelling movies.

All that's an afterthought really, since the chances statistically of any truly indie feature getting distribution is very slim (not talking about studio funded "indies"), so if you manage to make it to the point where you and your buddies are saying - this is so good that it needs a transfer to 35mm - well then congratulations - you will have beaten great odds and made a movie that stands head and shoulders above the rest, and the rest is GRAVY. I hope to see your movie on blue ray (from a 35mm telecine).
 
I've read that something like 98% of indies don't get distribution in the US. It's a little different here. There is very little local content produced here and there is an outlet for it if it's good enough.
 
squig said:
As for named talent......hehe, Mel Gibson was a nobody when Miller made Mad Max and it grossed 100 million and that was back in the day when 100 million was worth something. I'm not trying to make 100 million I just want to tell a good story and make it look good and show it. Money flows if ya do it right.r
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If your script and production value is anywhere near as innovative and high concept as Mad Max I wouldn't suggest shooting it with a VDSLR.

Always like to hear what you have to say Kholi and everyone else, I'm always learning something from you guys but don't confuse my youthful exuberance for naiveite (not that I'm not naive about a great many things) it's just part of australian culture to come across as a wanker and I have some german arrogance in the blood to boot.

I know I'm the new indie kid on the block here but I was once the record producer kid and I walked away with local grammy equivalent (ARIA) for my first album. I'm a dreamer but I'm not dreamin.
Click to expand...
I'm twenty-six and I've been shooting for less than three years.


You're not worried cause you've had your hand on it. I won't be worried when you stop yappin and show me some wicked shi*. Output is something I always worry about until it's put out.

so do I get to hang out with the cool kids?
Click to expand...
I'm not worried because I know that the camera is enough as it sits. You know what I know.

But sounds like you got it all down, man! And you're right, you're in a different market, as well. I'm not gonna discourage you, was just bein' realistic.
 
hehe, I'm not trashing any classic cars. I'd get murdered for that. You know they actually ran out of money and didn't get to trash as many cars as they had wanted to lol. It's an urban drama, Mad Max part 4 is my 2nd script. I'm working on a kind of surreal blade runner look, cinematography not effects wise. anamorphics, smoke, lighting, grading, darkness, rain.....and no bloody narration!

I'm 38 and I'm off to film school next month.....oh joy

like I said always wanna hear what you got to say man.

I gotta run, gotta post an application for a 25k grant.
 
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