The Art of film making without a Script?

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GregPorter

Active member
For the past while now I've been thinking more and more about this subject because it affects me greatly..

Basically, when I come up with an idea for a short film or some other sort of video where it involves actors.. I don't really write a script or screenplay for it.

I like keeping all my idea's in my head, or small notations in a notepad or on my PC.

I will however write out a "script-like" thing just for a persons lines, but even when I'm filming I usually just tell them what to say.

I'm very passionate about having it the way I want it as I see it in my head, I'm not controlling over an actors gut feeling about characters and such and I value their opinions on scene's and their characters but I usually tell them exactly what I want done and then I let them go at it.


Do you think this okay or am I getting into a bad habbit?

My mind is always making idea's but the most I'll do is write down very vague notes, I still have clear visions of film idea's I've had since early 2008 so I'm not sure if it's okay to go with this because it works or if it's just a horrible idea.

Opinions?
 
For artsy shorts, go for it. For feature films you really would need to structure and write up screenplays using proven structure and techniques, imho. The more you deviate form what has worked, the smaller your audience, the smaller the ticket sales. But for shorts, for the sake of art, you can film anything.
 
Your approach is just as valid as any other. What matters is the end result. In case you didn't know, Mike Leigh works the exact same way, and he's been nominated for 6 Oscars.
 
Lots of directors put their actors in character and let them improv to see what comes out of it, I like the idea of both scripted dialog and improv for every scene, best one wins in the edit bay.

First time director Oren Peli didn't have a script when he flimed Paranormal Activity (in 7 days), it's the new little ($15k) indie horror movie that is storming the box office right now, it's the next Blair Witch. His actors did t improv, they had great chemistry.
 
I know what you mean. I'm a strong believer that whenever you right down an idea, you destroy the version you held in your mind. That's why screenwriting is difficult -- it takes training and ability to be able to copy that thought into a form that others will be able understand. If you can't write it down, do you really think you can tell it to someone off the cuff?
 
Great responses guys, somewhat mixed but it's reassuring.

I guess if I'm going for something super serious or something I want to take further than online or small festivals I'll sit down and crunch until it's in a proper, proven form and otherwise I'll let my imagination fuel my short films.

Thanks guys!
 
Four of the six nominations appear to be for screenwriting. The other two were for directing two of those four screenplays he wrote. I could be missing something here, but he indeed seems to write screenplays, even for what he directs (at least what he was nominated for directing).

Batutta said:
Your approach is just as valid as any other. What matters is the end result. In case you didn't know, Mike Leigh works the exact same way, and he's been nominated for 6 Oscars.
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One other note on Mike Leigh...he rehearses for months...often as much as 6 months to a year...until they are ready to shoot...so it's much more structured than improvising on the spot during production. I've always scripted my films, but always allow the actors to do whatever they want on a few takes as well. The best of both worlds.
 
I think Zak Forsman is the acknowledged master around here, when it comes to that kind of approach to production. He's always very generous with sharing accumulated insights and knowledge; you should PM him (or wait for him to come across this thread...)
 
I think this type of approach is more suitable for the experience autuer. Wong Kar-Wai apparently uses a really sparse/if no script; pretty sure 2046 was shot without a script.
 
i think the question of whether or not to write a screenplay before filming - and letting your actors improvise fall under two different categories. the first for screenwriting and the second for directing...

my question to you is - why can't you write a screenplay and still get your actors to improvise?

im also stuck with "I will however write out a "script-like" thing just for a persons lines, but even when I'm filming I usually just tell them what to say."

how do the actors know who the character really is with only dialogue to go by and then deliver it? this is why i'd write a script... and how do you get actors if you have no script for them to read? i'm assuming they're friends doing you a favour or something...?

i agree with Randall here, for short films it might be fine - although i'd still write a script - but for features...... now you're messing with the third billy goat gruff

all in all, do whatever suits you and works for you. and have fun
 
You generally give your actors background and guidance materials outside of the script itself, in helping them get a purchase on their character - and it's usually good practice to encourage them to bring what they can to it from their end too.

Actors constantly improvise within the content the script. It's practically standard practice.
 
siraj said:
i agree with Randall here, for short films it might be fine - although i'd still write a script - but for features...... now you're messing with the third billy goat gruff
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I think that with a short film, unless you're doing some abstract David Lynch style non-linear film, that a script is even more necessary for the short than for a feature.

Recently, I wrote, produced, and directed my second real commercial. When I say commercial, I mean something meant to go on both web and TV and be 30 seconds to 1 minute total, and not the longer form types of marketing and promotional videos I've done in the past. It was a humbling experience to say the least, due to the massive challenge that squeezing a concept and information into such a short time frame is not easy.

Now the reason for this is that the pre-production period was too short, and the script was too long, and the shooting schedule was compromised, and due to all of this, we had to veer from the script to get what we needed and hit the deadline. Had I had a more streamlined script, that would've saved a ton of time in post. Versus my first commercial I shot, which had a super short and simple script. Moral of the story, the shorter the piece, the less room you have to goof around with inconsistencies and unpredictable variables. This is especially important if you are producing work for a client, and not just for your own shi*s and giggles.

Same with short films, especially those that are 5-10 minutes. Unless you have an extremely simple story, 5 minutes is not a lot of time to properly set-up the premise, build tension, develop characters, and then create a satisfying climax that pays off in a satisfying way for the audience.

Basically, with shorter works, you have less "breathing room" to shift stuff around in post than you do with a feature. Granted, some people like to have more options in the edit bay, but personally, by the time I get to the edit bay I don't want to constantly be solving basic narrative problems. I want to be assembling my story and using all of my wits to take it to the next level, and not have to pull all my hair out rewriting with my footage. Paper is cheap. Rewrite on that, not with your raw footage that you spent massive amounts of time, energy, and possibly money to acquire.

Now, having said that, I think that for the sake of stretching ourselves creatively, doing a film without a script could be a great challenge. I've thought about it myself, and indeed, some story concepts might take on a very interesting new life if done in this less traditional way. Just depends on what it is. I doubt you could go and make Star Wars or Titanic without a script, nor would you get the green light from the suits without a script either. Now a film like Clerks or Dazed and Confused, I could see something along those lines being made without a definitive screenplay.

Also, we all work different ways, and some filmmakers out there might just have a knack for this methodology compared to the majority of us. Add up using this technique on several films, and then maybe that improvisational filmmaker gets really proficient at this way of doing things?

Sad Max said:
I think Zak Forsman is the acknowledged master around here, when it comes to that kind of approach to production. He's always very generous with sharing accumulated insights and knowledge; you should PM him (or wait for him to come across this thread...)
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Call me crazy, but I could've sworn seeing a post way back when (for Heart of Now?) where Mr. Forsman stated that he still writes out a full screenplay in the proper professional format, and then uses this to improvise off of. If you can find this old thread on Heart of Now, I think he explains his process in detail.

edit: check out this page, and the post down towards the bottom.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=83837&page=17

Zak Forsman said:
thought i'd post a PDF of the screenplay now that the feature has been shot. in many cases we abandoned the scripted dialogue you'll see here, opting for more natural, and "behavioral" engagement between the actors. we allowed the scenes to evolve from take to take until we discovered all there was to discover by following the emotional truths of the characters while maintaining their underlying objective(s) for each scene. so take it for what it is, a foundation to be built upon in collaboration with the cast and crew.
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Many of the earlier silent film directors did it this way or something similair. There are no rules but there are results.
 
Hmm

Hmm

Well I think basically it comes down to there being a reason filmmaking is done the way it is done. I think your way can work, on a lower budget, with a smaller crew, and talented actors who are ok with your style.

But I think that it's important to remember that the screenplay is often so valuable because it helps people budget, it helps the various departments learn what they need to do to be successful, what kind of props and locations are needed, what wardrobe, etc. It's a blueprint, it's so important that the blueprint is pretty close to what you want in the film itself that you are building.

I think it's a great idea, however, for your style, to write a screenplay, then perhaps use it as a fallback option, like you could for instance more or less go from what you are thinking and feeling at that moment, and use the screenplay as a crutch or fallback so that if you need to go to it, you can in a pinch. I mean I can see that working well. Just a thought.
 
I got involved in a project where I was one of a bunch of filmmakers and actors that went off into the wilds of Michigan with just an outline to improve a little horror movie. The concept was of a reality TV show gone wrong, were murder and mayhem ensued. It was a fun time to shot, but after several years of trying to edit together a coherent movie, I have to say that it is a disaster. Film production is just too hard to try and make it up as you go along. I am not saying that you have to have a Syd Field textbook script, but having a clearly designed structure and narrative path to work from is very important. When it is 2:00 AM and you have been shooting all night, having the story in black and white and prepared to reference back to is very valuable and may make the difference between a filmmaking exercise and a finished film.
 
Go onto Netflix and watch (online) a feature called 'The Devil of Blue Mountain'. He just gave his actors the basics of a story, and let them improv for 3 days. Judge the results for yourself.
 
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