The af200 thread

Spartacus said:
Grrr, nothing new from Panasonic at the IBC it seems. I know it isn´t "cycle time" yet, still many potential buyers will decide on Sony, Canon or BMD now...
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Yeah, you're right . . . they're going to be forced to decide based on what's actually being manufactured.
I likely have a rather short memory but I don't remember Panasonic introducing any new models at IBC in recent years.

To tag on to what Barry said earlier in regard to the cycle . . . development, supply, production, I don't think it would work to deliver "A" or "B" models with any greater frequency.
Seems (to me) that they'd be competing with themselves (probably don't need to bring up the HPX300/360 history).
I'd probably be less likely to move up with the frequency that I do at present if I didn't have confidence that the manufacturer would'nt be dropping a bomb not long after I'd made my investment.
 
Mike Harvey said:
Honestly, if you have a good demo reel and/or reputation, but a prospective client refuses to hire you because you own an AF100 and not an FS100, an FS700, a C300, a BM camera, or whatever... unless they have a very specific reason (like it needs to be intercut with other similar cameras), I'm not sure the client is necessarily worth taking on. If you have a good reel, the camera by and large won't matter. And if you don't have a good reel, the latest and greatest camera isn't going to magically make it better. If a client believes otherwise, chances are they don't know what the heck they're talking about.

And I don't reward myself with a new camera for a job well done... that would be like a carpenter rewarding himself with a new hammer and hacksaw. It's a tool, not a reward. That's what pizza and beer is for :beer:
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+1

And a specific camera can be rented for a job. You don't need to own all your gear.
 
I just wanted to point out that getting new jobs and looking into buying a new and maybe better camera are not opposed to each other ;)
Not to start the old discussion of "what is more important" again, I hope to read some rumors soon about Panasonics follow up to the remarkable AF100, cheers mates!
 
There are people that always think that those big companies knows so much that they don't have to care about competition. Did you see what happened to Kodak the last 10 years and what about Nokia in such a short period since the Iphone and adroid in the 4 years. More so, did anyone remember the number of billions Panasonic lost last year.

What I am saying is that the market for large sensor video camera is moving at the speed of light. Not only does Panasonic has to compete with its traditional competitor, mainly Sony. But now they have a number of other competitors. Some are big like Canon has entered the pro market. Now you have the middle establish brand like Blackmagic and some smaller/start-up like kine-raw and digital bolex. Its more traditional competitor Sony has been delivering and is suppose to be releasing a number of cameras. It seems that every week they are launching a new camera.

What I hope is that the strongly rumored super featured gh3 is only the first step in a Panasonic competitive strategy in the large sensor camera. Drop a bomb at the dslr 1k level and then launch some higher end model with wide DR, avc-intra 10 bit with good datarate and good form factor at the base. I always say the companies should adopt the dslr system. Build a chip and processing electronic and then build different model at different price point around it depending on features. This is what Canon has done with its cinema line of camera. But at least what I am hopeful is that they don't sell it at the price level that Canon is doing.
 
Danielvilliers said:
What I hope is that the strongly rumored super featured gh3 is only the first step in a Panasonic competitive strategy in the large sensor camera. Drop a bomb at the dslr 1k level and then launch some higher end model with wide DR, avc-intra 10 bit with good datarate and good form factor at the base. I always say the companies should adopt the dslr system. Build a chip and processing electronic and then build different model at different price point around it depending on features. This is what Canon has done with its cinema line of camera. But at least what I am hopeful is that they don't sell it at the price level that Canon is doing.
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I think you´re spot on.
Pana is the only company who has yet to really cater to the digital35 (or bigger) market. Sony and Canon both have cameras sitting above the AF100, feature and price wise. NAB will most like not only bring an AF200 (based on the GH3), but sth bigger, maybe P2/AVCintra based, maybe even more.

Still doesn´t solve the "I need a new cam now" problem ;o)
 
Spartacus said:
...NAB will most like not only bring an AF200 (based on the GH3)...
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It's going to be a challenge for a $3000+ AF200 to beat a $1300 GH3 with 80mbps ALL-I (and the add on XLR accessory) - unless it has higher frame rates, a larger sensor and maybe a shoulder mount. I'm looking forward to seeing what Panasonic comes up with.

Still doesn´t solve the "I need a new cam now" problem ;o)
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For people who need a new m4/3 video camera ASAP, and can't live with the limitations of the GH2, I'd say preordering a GH3 might be the best option.
 
brunerww said:
It's going to be a challenge for a $3000+ AF200 to beat a $1300 GH3 with 80mbps ALL-Intra encoder... I'm looking forward to seeing what Panasonic comes up with.
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Yes, it would be a huge win if Panasonic released a firmware update for the AF100, incorporating the GH3's H.264 encoders for Long-GOP 50Mbps and all-Intra 72Mbps video recording. Those are features I would definitely pay for.
 
brunerww said:
It's going to be a challenge for a $3000+ AF200 to beat a $1300 GH3 with 80mbps ALL-I (and the add on XLR accessory)
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I expect the AF200 vs GH3 contest will be very much like the current AF100 vs GH2 contest, where the AFxxx series of cameras adds: professional image controls, SDI ports, good audio pre-amps, finely incremented variable frame rates, etc...

It would also not surprise me if the AF200 adds dual P2 Mini card slots and a proper AVC-Intra CODEC to the mix as well.

...Whatever Panasonic produces will have to be able to stand up to their Canon/Sony competition, so it will definitely be a significant camera.

As for the BMC camera, I think their technology is far too immature to worry about competing with right now, but a 2nd or 3rd generation Black Magic camera might be a different story.
 
mcbob said:
Serious doubt it would be $3000 at this point. Probably closer to or above the AF's intro price.
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Yeah, let's keep this apples to apples. the GH2 is $700 without a lens on B&H, the AF100 $3,500 without lens after the rebate. The better comparison would $1,800 for the GH3 to right around $4,800 for an AFxxx.

And also, the whole "hard to compete with the GHx" argument is flawed. As Dingo points out, these are very different cameras. If all someone cares about is bitrate, then fine. But there are several things the AF100 has the GH series doesn't. The GH series are photo-cameras that do video really well. The AF100 is a pro-video camera. Very different philosophies behind either of them. $1,800 vs either $3,500 or $4,800, it's no contest for me. The extra money is worth it for me and what I do.

You're mileage may vary.
 
I think the thing about these 5K and under cameras is that they are cheap enough to be in the scope of amateurs. So they compare a pro video camera with a picture camera because all they care is image specs. But I honestly couldn't see any professional who's living depends on their camera choosing a GH camera over the AF100 as their only camera. Most people who would choose a GH are people who don't do professional paid work and can put up with the time consuming and unreliable quirks of the GH cameras because they are doing hobbyist stuff for themselves.
 
Adamsenoj said:
I think the thing about these 5K and under cameras is that they are cheap enough to be in the scope of amateurs. So they compare a pro video camera with a picture camera because all they care is image specs. But I honestly couldn't see any professional who's living depends on their camera choosing a GH camera over the AF100 as their only camera. Most people who would choose a GH are people who don't do professional paid work and can put up with the time consuming and unreliable quirks of the GH cameras because they are doing hobbyist stuff for themselves.
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+1
 
Adamsenoj said:
I think the thing about these 5K and under cameras is that they are cheap enough to be in the scope of amateurs. So they compare a pro video camera with a picture camera because all they care is image specs. But I honestly couldn't see any professional who's living depends on their camera choosing a GH camera over the AF100 as their only camera. Most people who would choose a GH are people who don't do professional paid work and can put up with the time consuming and unreliable quirks of the GH cameras because they are doing hobbyist stuff for themselves.
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While I generally sort of agree with this statement, I've seen proffesionals choose the GH2, and turn out some ridiculassly good stuff (and some turn out some not so good stuff). They all tools... choose the one that serves you best, but the one that serves you best may not serve the next guy as well.
 
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Adamsenoj said:
Most people who would choose a GH are people who don't do professional paid work and can put up with the time consuming and unreliable quirks of the GH cameras because they are doing hobbyist stuff for themselves.
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Paid shoot, NFL team, GH2 w/ Sedna.
 
Barry_Green said:
Could there be an "AF100A" introduced at IBC? Maybe, but I wouldn't expect there to be such. If there's anything like an "AF200" coming, I wouldn't expect that until NAB 2013 at the earliest.
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I would prefer Panasonic wait until they are ready to roll out Micro P2, and incorporate that into an "AF200". A next gen m4/3 sensor (the next level up from what's in the GH3), coupled with AVC-Intra to Micro P2 would be a kickass combo in my book, except maybe a better implementation of focus peaking? I know people swear by it, but I found it hard to use (and I love the peaking in the TVLogic monitor and the EX series cameras).

One of the things I like most about Panasonic is that, by and large, they don't hobble their cameras with shoddy codecs onboard. Look at the HVX/HPX, HPX-250, ect. AVCHD being an exception, obviously, but now with Micro P2 and UHS-I SD cards, we now have smaller media that can handle more professional codecs, and I'd love to see Panasonic implement that with the successor to the AF100 so that outboard recording is no longer needed.
 
Hopefully I'm not beating a dead horse. I'm new around the AF100 forum (GH2 owner here). I was wondering if anyone had heard anything new about the possibility of the AF200 or whatever they may call it being announced at NAB this year. It sounded like Barry thought it was likely (but not any earlier), and I understand that he's an expert on these things. ;)

I'm ready to make the move to the AF100 from the GH2, but the possibility of the AF200 on the horizon gave me some pause. However, if it is announced in April, we can assume from previous experience that it won't be released until about late fall, right? And it's also unlikely that it would be at the $4,000 price point, but more likely the original price point of the AF100, which I think was around $6,000 or $5,000. Do you guys agree? If that's the case, I think that a used AF100 in the $2,x00 range would still be the right choice for me right now.

Thank you! Cheers!
 
If you want to stick with M43, then I think you'd do very well to pick up a used AF100 - they're crazy cheap now so you're not risking much, and any potential successor is a year away I think.
 
Well, I really doubt we will see an AF100 replacement or another M4/3 or S35 cinema camera from Panasonic announced this NAB. Best we are going to get is probably the 4K prototype shown again, either the same or a more developed mock up. Having said that, what do I know? It is still possible.
But if you already have a GH2, why not wait another couple of months? Unless you have a project to which you need the AF now, waiting for NAB will only do you good. It's so close and it's a win-win situation. If they announce an "AF200" you can wait for one if you so wish. If the "AF200" is not for you, the new camera will possibly make the AF100 used prices drop even more. But they sure wont go up. If they don't announce a new camera, the used AF100 prices will still be the same. I doubt they will go up.
 
They just barely released the AF100A. I would have no expectations of there being any AF200 announced this soon after the AF100A's introduction.
 
Barry_Green said:
They just barely released the AF100A. I would have no expectations of there being any AF200 announced this soon after the AF100A's introduction.
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I had that thought. And even if they do, and it's released in the fall, the price point would have to be around the original price of the AF100 at its release. Because they are still going to be trying to sell the AF100A, with probably a slight price decrease.

Well, I went ahead and bought a used one from Adorama that only had 40 hours on it. So you all will be seeing me a lot around here!!
 
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