The $300 Recorder Question, or, "Which cheap audio recorder should I get?"

The $300 Recorder Question, Part II.

The $300 Recorder Question, Part II.

Continued from above.

BAG RECORDERS

Here we enter the standard and, honestly, preferred form factor for location sound recording. Bag recorders come in different shapes and sizes, but they all share the same design principles: a face panel that features a clear display screen, tactile transport and menu navigation controls, and rotary level controls for input sources; flexible inputs and outputs on the left and right side panels; and (ideally) external powering options. This is also the category that has the biggest range of prices and features.

The term “bag recorder” comes from the design fitting easily into a traditional sound bag that places the display and controls facing up toward the operator, keeping the I/O connections down inside the bag for clean cable management. Sound bags allow for storage and organization of mixer/recorder, power supply, wireless receivers, and more that can be easily work with a shoulder strap or harness. For the one-person-band sound department that is booming while also managing everything else, the bag is a standard accessory.

Because there are so many options, from quite inexpensive to top-of-the-line, which recorder to buy comes down to budget, needed number of inputs and outputs, and specialty needs like time code or 32-bit float. Let’s first address the specialty needs: do you need time code, or 32-bit float? Honestly, probably not.

Time code can be helpful, but unless you’re working on a production where post has specifically requested it, it’s not necessarily... necessary. Especially if you’re creating your own content, many NLEs now automatically link separate audio and video files based on the sound. A good, ol’-fashioned dumb slate (clapper) is a great way to keep track of your takes and to be able to locate clear sync marks. Full use of time code requires a smart slate that is jammed to the sound recorder (or to the same TC source that the recorder is using), as well as a camera that can jam to external TC. Additionally, time code sync boxes are an extra expense that are crucial to a stable time-code-based workflow.

32-bit float is also something that isn’t likely needed. It can be helpful, but proper gain staging and level control are still important skills to develop. Managing 32-bit audio is something most post houses aren’t built for, and professional film and TV productions still require 24-bit/48kHz audio. If you’re doing sound design and recording custom sound effects, 32-bit float can be extremely useful. For traditional location sound (dialog), it may be more trouble than it’s worth.

For the $300 price point, there are non-time-code options like the DR-60DmkII and DR-70D from Tascam, and the Marantz PMD-706. These recorders are also designed to be able to mount under a camera, but they do all enjoy physical designs that can drop easily into a small bag.

Above $300 and under $1000 opens up some semi-professional options that are more suited to location sound bag work. Sound Devices offer the MixPre-3 II and the MixPre-6 II, both equipped with time code and 32-bit float options. Their Kashmir pre-amps come with true analog input limiting to prevent clipping without damaging the signal in the process. They offer 3 and 4 XLR inputs, respectively. The Zoom F6 offers 6 XLR inputs, time code, and 32-bit float. The Zoom F8n offers time code and 8 XLR inputs (plus two with a proprietary add-on module), but does not have 32-bit float. Input limiters for both the F6 and F8n are analog/digital hybrid.

An honorable mention goes to the Tascam DR-701D. This is basically the DR-70D, but with time code capabilities. However, it is well-known that the internal time code on this device drifts terribly, so it requires being fed with a constant, external source like a Tentacle Sync or a Betso.

Around the $1500 mark is the MixPre-10 II from Sound Devices. All the features of the MixPre-6 II, but with an additional 4 XLR inputs and more flexible output options. It also adds BNC connectors for time code/word clock in and out. Just up at the $2000 are the Roland R-88 and the Tascam HS-P82, both with time code and 8 XLR inputs. Neither with 32-bit float.

From there, we jump quite a bit in price to get into the high-end multitrack mixer/recorders used on professional sets. Starting around $3000 and going up toward $10,000, these recorders offer much more durable construction, flexible input and output routing, and more redundancy for both power and recording media. Sound Devices launched their 8-series a couple years ago, introducing the 833 successor to the beloved 633, as well as the 888 and the Scorpio. As a side note, there are deals to be found on used 6-series recorders (633, 644, 688) that fall below this price point. Also on the top-end are offerings from Zaxcom, Sonosax, and Nagra. What these recorders don’t have: 32-bit float. It’s just not something that’s used on high-end sets.

Regarding outputs, many bag recorders (especially the higher-end models) offer more than just a stereo output. Flexible outputs with menu-based routing come into play when you need more than just a feed to a camera. Client IFB really needs to have its own custom output mix. If you’re working with a boom op, a monitor return channel needs its own output mix. These typically come in routable auxiliary outputs, often labeled as “Aux” or “X” outputs. Consider these as well when choosing the recorder that’s right for you.

This brings us to the last category, though some of the bag-friendly recorders can also cross into this realm:

CART-BASED RECORDERS

For larger scale productions, we move to the most expensive builds for production sound systems. Cart-based sound work is typically found on narrative sets where a sound mixer is able to sit and focus on the mix while a boom op covers on-set and serves as the location mixer’s eyes and ears close to the camera. Cart-based recorders are built into rolling sound carts that range from simple and slim to elegant and complex with both shore-power and battery distribution, video monitoring, and more.

There are bag-friendly recorders that can be just as much at home when part of a sound cart, simply by adding a mixing control surface. The 833, 888, and Scorpio are compatible with some third-party control surfaces, and Sound Devices also offer their own native mix control surfaces. For budget-friendly solutions, Zoom offer a mixing control surface for the F8n and Sound Devices MixPre series recorders are compatible with several off-the-shelf, USB-based mixing controllers.

Recorders that are suited for cart work, but aren’t bag-friendly, include the Sound Devices 970 and the Aaton Cantar X3. I’d also argue that the Scorpio is much more suited to cart work; yes, it is certainly bag-friendly, but it makes for a very heavy/bulky bag, especially the more wireless receivers are added. Likewise, there is a bag solution for the Cantar X3 but it’s big and, personally, I find it a bit clumsy that way.

There are also carts that are made for sound bags, allowing the user to move quickly between mixing from a cart and run-and-gun bag work. This may or may not include a control surface. But that’s another conversation for another thread.

A NOTE ABOUT DRIFT, SAMPLE RATE, AND TIME CODE

When dealing with double-system sound and non-sync recorders, there is a chance that the sound will drift when put up against the video in post-production. Why? Well, it has to do with each device's internal clock.

Put two devices together that don't share a master clock (this is what "non-sync" means) and set them both to record at 48kHz. One might actually be recording at 47,998Hz (47.998kHz) and the other at 48,024Hz (48.024kHz). When these audio files are placed in the time line of an NLE or a DAW, where they play at an actual 48kHz, one will be playing slightly faster than the other. This can cause problems.

Drift isn't usually a huge deal if each shot or clip is fairly short, so most narrative work isn’t a concern. Longer clips may have noticeable drift over time, impacting documentary interviews and reality TV where sound recording can go uninterrupted for hours. The audio and video will start in sync, but after a few minutes the audio may either lead or fall behind the video. Technology has improved and different clocks seem to be a bit more stable, but for non-sync sound this can still pop up.

Audio depends on sample rate to determine its playback speed, but that doesn’t mean that time code settings cannot have an adverse effect. If your sound recorder has time code and allows setting a time base (frame rate), make absolutely sure that you set it to the same frame rate as the camera. Mismatched frame rates between sound and video files, in many NLEs, can actually cause otherwise stable audio to drift.

DECISIONS, DECISIONS

There's quite a bit to consider if you're looking for a good sound recorder. As always, do your research and read reviews. Are the pre-amps clean? Are the limiters transparent? Is the operating system known to be buggy? After all, this is the device that will be recording literally half of the content of any production you work on.

I'm also a big fan of the idea of "own small and rent big". If you're just starting out, there's absolutely no need to go into crippling debt to build your first sound kit. Freelance work isn't one of those "if you build it, they will come" things. The kit does not get you the work: your networking and self-marketing do. Get a basic kit that you can afford and that covers the little stuff that you may be able to get right off the bat. Indie films, hobby/amateur-level productions, and other non-paying work can be covered with a very basic kit... a boom, maybe a couple of wireless (though not necessary), and a small recorder. Corporate, documentary, and commercial work can often be covered with 4 tracks: a boom and up to three wireless. If the opportunity comes along to take on a bigger project with bigger needs, rent what you need to get the job done. Rental costs are passed on to the client, so it's a win-win.

Once you have regular work coming in that requires a bigger kit, justifies the expense, and will pay it off in a reasonably short amount of time, then it's time to consider upgrading what you have.
 
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Yup, we're back. This time, the answer isn't nearly as simple, but the question has been posted almost daily in recent weeks.

The reason this isn't as easy to answer as the $500 Wireless Question is that the market is much more saturated with different makes and models in a competitive range of price and performance. Like everything else in this industry, however, you do get what you pay for. Buy right, and buy once.
[PRBREAK][/PRBREAK]There are different levels of recorders, based on price. There are handy uses for many/most of them. So, instead of throwing out a definitive make and model, let's look at what you need to know about these devices before you buy.

The important things to consider (aside from budget) are interface (I/O connections), pre-amps, and form factor. Also of importance is what the rest of your system looks like (mics and mixers), and what your intended use is; both of these will be covered in the other three points.

Interface

The i/o connections on a recorder are very important. A lot of this really has to do with other gear in your kit. Are you working with mic-level sources, or line-level sources? Do you need XLR connections for your mics? Are you using a mixer, and what kind(s) of output(s) does it have? The basic connections that you'll find are:
  • 1/8" TRS (stereo) mic. This is useful for mics that have 1/8" connections, such as the RØDE VideoMic or Sennheiser MKE400 or similar. If this is all the recorder has for mic-level inputs, and you have mics with XLR outs, you'll need an XLR converter. If you are planning to use anything other than the aforementioned mini-shotguns (RØDE, Sennheiser, etc.), or are planning to use a mixer in front of the recorder, and this is the only input the recorder has, then consider a different recorder.
  • 1/8" TRS (stereo) line. Line inputs are great for use with a mixer. If your mixer has a 1/8" Tape Out, this will be a good fit.
  • 1/4" line, either TRS or TS. Line-level signals, again, come from mixers (or pre-amps). These are more robust connections than the 1/8" TRS. If you're using a mixer with balanced line output (most likely over XLR), a 1/4" TRS line input will work with a simple adapter cable.
  • RCA line. This is an unbalanced line-level signal, same as the 1/4" TS connection.
  • XLR mic. This is the standard mic connection. If you have mics that use XLR connection, you need a recorder with an XLR connection. Some mixers offer mic-level output over XLR, but that's kind of a wasted connection since the signal has to go through a second pre-amp in the recorder.
  • XLR line. Generally found only on the much higher-end recorders, this is the most secure, most robust line-level connection you can get on a recorder. If you have a mixer with XLR line-level outs, this is what you really want (though the 1/4" TRS line is a perfectly acceptable substitute).
  • S/PDIF digital RCA (coaxial). This requires another device that sends a digital signal over the same connection.
  • AES/EBU digital XLR. This also requires another device that sends a digital signal over the same connection. The benefit of digital inputs comes with a mixer that has digital outputs, eliminating an entire analog link in the signal chain. Once it's digital, analog noise cannot be added.
There is a difference in levels between balanced and unbalanced line-level signals. This is important to know when matching mixers and recorders. Taking a balanced output from a mixer and sending it to an unbalanced input on a recorder can be a mismatch, and can cause some artifacts in the signal. This is taking a +4dB balanced signal to a -10dB unbalanced signal. If your recorder has 1/4" TS (unbalanced) line inputs, you may be better off taking the 1/8" Tape Out from the mixer using a simple Y-cable (1/8" TRS to dual 1/4" TS). Likewise, for recorders that have RCA line inputs, a simple Y-cable (1/8" TRS to dual RCA) can be used from the mixer's Tape Out.

Balanced signals, both mic- and line-level, can be run longer distances and are less susceptible to signal degradation than unbalanced signals. This is especially important to know when matching mics to recorders. If your mic has an unbalanced output and you plan to run it a long distance to the recorder, such as mounting the mic to a boom that will be located some distance from the recorder, you're opening your signal up to potential problems. Mics with 1/8" TRS connections are unbalanced. If you're running the Tape Out from a mixer to 1/8" or 1/4" line in on your recorder, don't worry that it's unbalanced. You only need a 3' cable, and that's not a long enough run to suffer any signal degradation at all.

There are other types of audio connections out there, but the list above covers everything you'll find on field recorders. You probably won't find digital connections on any recorders under $750, though.

Pre-amps

There is no such thing as mic-level recording. When the signal is written to tape (remember tape?), CD, Compact Flash, Secure Digital, or any other media, it is line-level. So every mic must first go through a pre-amp, which brings the mic-level signal up to line-level for proper recording. Your audio signal is only as good as the weakest link in the signal chain, and pre-amps can be make or break.

Generally speaking, 1/8" mic inputs don't feature great pre-amps. Why would they? The manufacturer cheaped out on the input connection, so why waste money on a higher grade of pre-amp? It may have been a design decision made to fit within limited real estate on the recorder, but most of the compact hand-helds are really designed for use with their built-in mics more than anything, and the 1/8" input is offered as a convenience. That's not to say that every XLR mic input has a pristine pre-amp hiding inside; there are certainly some less expensive recorders that have bad circuitry with XLR ins. Point being, if you're serious about your sound, limiting yourself to cheap input connection is a mistake.

Do some reading on different recorders, and look for reviews that talk about the pre-amps. As another general statement, pre-amps in recorders in the sub-$500 range aren't going to be that impressive. Some are better than others, but they'll mostly be varying degrees of "could be much better".

Recorders with cheap(ish) pre-amps can still be very useful, though. If used with an external mixer or pre-amp, the recorder becomes a line-level recorder (assuming it has a true line-level input) and its pre-amps don't enter into the equation. Even better, if your mixer has digital inputs and is used with a mixer that has digital outputs, the recorder becomes nothing more than a "bit bucket".

It's also worth mentioning that phantom power, required for use with condenser mics (at least, those that don't have a battery option), can drain the recorder's batteries much faster. Also, some recorders with cheap pre-amps start to generate noise when the batteries get low. Do your research and read reviews. Using an external mixer/pre-amp takes that load off the recorder and extends battery life and alleviates other issues.

Form Factor

This really has to do with intended use (and a bit with budget).

A hand-held recorder can be useful for small projects. If you're in a place where you can hand-hold it, or have it sitting on a desk, table, or cart, you should be fine. One place this recorder design falls short is for bag use. The other is on-the-fly level control.

Run-and-gun ENG/EFP with a hand-held recorder is a logistical pain in the duff. There's no way to put it in a bag where the controls are easily accessible and the meters clearly visible. Plus, there's a huge risk of the recorder getting jostled in the bag during a take and the wrong button getting hit. And if you need to ride levels during production (which you most likely will), not only are the controls hidden but the recorder doesn't have tactile level control like a mixer does. So if you're running with a bag, consider investing a bit more in a recorder that's made for the job.

While it may not fit perfectly under "form factor," I'm also going to use this section to talk about tracks. Tracks have to do with how many discreet channels can be recorded. If you're working with one or two mics, a two-track (stereo) recorder is plenty. Even with three mics and a mixer in front, two record tracks can be useful. But consider what's going to happen in post: do you want to have control over the mix as you edit? if you're dealing with more than two mics, being able to record them each individually is a huge plus. That means that you can work with each mic during post, and you aren't stuck with a mix if one mic happened to be a little lower than the others when it should have been higher.

One other note: time code. Do you need it? Probably not. TC is great (and necessary) if you're working on a high-end, professional production with film or a top-of-the-line video camera. For anything else, it's not a big deal. Buy a dumb slate (clapper board), and take diligent log notes during production, and all will be well.

Hand-held recorders are by far the least expensive recorders. They also are the least flexible and feature questionable pre-amps.

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So, what about recommendations? Well, at the time of writing, there are a few different things out there. Really, there are too many to list, and countless threads discussing pros and cons of specific models. So here's a brief breakdown of what you'll find (with a few notes):

Low-end (under $300)

Zoom, Tascam, Yamaha, Sony, and Roland are the common names here. Recorders from $99 and up. These are all hand-held.

Tascam, by far, has the most offerings in this range. Their vast array of model numbers can get a bit confusing. They do, however, have the only hand-held recorder in this price range that can actually take +4dB (balanced) line-level by 1/4" TRS connection. That's a pretty big plus.

Zoom has become very popular. Their least expensive recorders, the H1, H2, and H2n, all have 1/8" connections only. Pre-amps in the H4 were terrible, and only slightly improved in the H4n. Another big difference between the H4 and the H4n is line-level input. The H4 could take -10dB (unbalanced) line-level in via 1/4" TS connection. The H4n says it can take line-level via the 1/4" TS ins, but this is not true. Those inputs are actually designed for instrument-level signal, such as from a guitar, which is not really mic-level and not really line-level. Either way, it's much lower than -10dB line, and feeding a line-level signal into those inputs will result in overmodulation (distortion).

These recorders also feature built-in mic arrays. One thing I absolutely love about little recorders like the H1 is that you can take them anywhere you go and grab some great ambient sound beds as you travel. Despite the fact that I run with a bag-friendly recorder, I do keep a small recorder with built-in stereo mic array just to grab quick sound beds.

Popular models: Zoom H1 and H4n, Sony PCM-M10. The H4n is one of two with XLR ins, and the pre-amps leave something to be desired. The new DR-40 from Tascam looks very promising, and offers XLR as well as +4dB line in through 1/4".

Semi-low-end ($300-$500)

Kind of a "neither here nor there" price range that has only a few offerings from Sony, Marantz, and Tascam. These are all middle-of-the-road hand-held recorders.

Popular models: Tascam DR-100, Sony PCM-D50. The Sony is often described as a better recorder, quality-wise, but does not have XLR ins. The DR-100 has XLR in, and though the pre-amps are notably better than those in the Zoom H4n there's only so much you can ask from a low-cost recorder.

Mid-grade ($500-$1000)

While this range has some higher-end hand-held recorders from Roland and Sony, we're also now in the price range for some really nice, bag-friendly recorders from Fostex and Tascam, including both a two-track recorder with digital in and TC and a multi-track recorder from Tascam.

Roland has a 4-track recorder that's under $1000; a good recorder with not-so-great pre-amps. There's also an offering from Marantz in this category, but it's not really a hand-held and it's not really bag-friendly. A decent recorder with a clumsy design.

It should be noted that the HD-P2 from Tascam has an annoying quirk. The XLR inputs are labeled "MIC/LINE IN", but this is not true. That's a leftover labeling scheme form the DA-P1, the DAT predecessor to the HD-P2. The DA-P1 could actually take line-level input over XLR connection. The HD-P2 cannot, and you'll probably fry the input boards if you try. I don't know why Tascam did this, but they did... and it's frustrating. For line-level in on the HD-P2, use the RCA inputs. Other than that, the HD-P2 is a solid performer.

Also, you may find some posts about the Tascam DR680 (multi-track recorder) overheating. This seems to be a result of packing too tightly in a gear bag with little air-flow/ventilation, and it also seems to be a pretty rare problem. Nonetheless, it has come up, and I thought it was worth mentioning.

Popular models: Fostex FR2-LE, Marantz PMD660/661, Tascam HD-P2 and DR680. The Marantz is clumsy, but performs well. Pre-amps in the FR2-LE are very good, even though the headphone amp leaves a little to be desired (overall, a stellar deal on a reliable recorder). Both offerings from Tascam are great, each geared to a very different purpose from the other (2-track vs. multi-track). The Roland recorders don't get as much attention these days.

The Bee's Knees (over $1000)

Now we're getting into some serious gear. Roland and Fostex have offerings in the lower end of this range. Sound Devices, Nagra, Sonosax, and Zaxcom (and one more from Roland) take it from there, and go from just under $2000 to well over $10,000. Great pre-amps, great designs, sturdy construction, and time code options abound.

Tascam also has a newer offering in this range with an 8-track recorder (HS-P82), that comes in around $5k.

Popular models: The Fostex FR2 is a solid offering that often gets overlooked, and has a time code option available. Sound Devices pretty much has the market here with 2-track, 4-track, and 8-track offerings, with and without time code. Their 552 mixer has a built-in stereo recorder. Nagra has been the old standard, since the days of open-reel tape, and has a digital recorder (the Nagra VI, $8k) that shows up on very high-budget productions. Also, if you want the absolute best hand-held recorder out there, Sony has one for a little under $2000. Just sayin'...

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One last note, and this is about format. Dialog recording for film and video will end up being 16-bit, 48kHz in the end. Recording 24-bit/48kHz is fine, and can give you a little flexibility in post for audio filters and plug-ins, but make sure that you use one or the other. And do not record in MP3 format. Keep it in uncompressed WAV (BWF, or Broadcast Wave File), or AIFF. The only reason to record something higher (such as 24-bit/96kHz) is for effects recording where you'll be doing some pretty serious signal manipulation later.

So, that's about it. Read reviews, do your research, and compare specs. While budget is certainly a concern for most, audio shouldn't be cut short for any serious work. As I've said before: good audio isn't cheap, and cheap audio will cost you more.

Peace,
Alex

Here are some recent threads that talk about various recorders.

Zoom:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...gh-pitch-noise
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...up-with-mixpre
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...Quick-Wuestion
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...oom-H4N-Issues
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...something-else
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...eamps-are-crap
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...er-or-Zoom-H4n
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...-to-Tascam-680

Tascam:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...ascam-recorder
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...orary-recorder
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...-100-questions
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...-Tascam-DR-680 (also mentions Edirol, which is now Roland)
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...o-TASCAM-HD-P2
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...nd-Devices-552 (vs. Zoom)

Fostex:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...needed-please-) (vs Tascam)
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...76-Fostex-FR-2
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...ghlight=fostex (vs. Tascam and Zoom)
 
Thought I'd chime in as I've done some research on the subject.

I don't know if it's against the rules to refer to another forum, but if anyone want's to read more about the lower cost recorders available than the posts found here, including some of the multitrack ones, then a good place is http://taperssection.com/. They have extensive posts on the more popular alternatives examining every possible usage and problem. One of the things they seem to agree on is that the Sony PCM M10 is one of the best small recorders in its price point (without XLR-inputs that is). One of the reasons that is of interest to film recording is that it's one of the few that can take a line in signal of +4dB, which is required if you use a mixer in front. Olympus LS-11 and LS-5 are other very good pocketsize alternatives.

Another good site is http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm that compares the preamp noise of many popular recorders, from sound devices down to Zoom H2. On http://www.rane.com/note148.html you can look at a list to see if the preamp noise will be noticably audible compared to the self-noise of the microphones you want to use.

http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/ has some short reviews of the recorders they offer, and also recordings comparing internal microphones, external through the preamp, and line in.
 
And it's also worth pointing out that these are *new* prices for the most part. I picked up my (virtually) new Fostex from a audio forum Marketplace for $400. Came with lots of extraa too! Audio forum folks are always pushing for the latest and greatest and usually keep their gear in stellar condition. My $.02
 
A Note About Zoom R-series Recorders

There have also been mentions about the Zoom R-series (R-8, R-16, R-24) as possible location recorders. These bring up an interesting option as affordable, entry-level, multi-track recorders in the +/- $500 range. They feature XLR inputs with phantom power. There are some things to note, however.

Form factor: these are neither hand-held nor bag-friendly. They're suited for cart-based use, as they have the form factor of a small-format mixing console. This means that you'll need to have a boom op (or two) and a sound mixer operating the machine... so this is not for the one-man-band (unless you're dealing strictly with lavs). Also, the meters leave a lot to be desired, so best of luck keeping accurate track of your levels.

Inputs: The R-8 has only two XLR ins, and can record only two tracks at a time. That pretty much makes it the least viable option (why go with such a form factor when you cannot record 8 simultaneous tracks?). The R-16 and R-24 are both equipped with 8 XLR ins and the ability to record 8 simultaneous tracks.

Pre-Amps: Don't expect amazing things. These are low-end recording devices, and Zoom's recorders are not known for the quality of their pre-amps.

Recording Format: The R-16 cannot record higher than 16-bit/44.1kHz unless used as a computer interface. Since 16/48 is the standard for video (and 24/48 is highly recommended), it's pretty much out of consideration. The R-24 can record 8 tracks of 24-bit/48kHz audio.

So of the three, the R-24 is really the only viable option. Still, keep in mind that the pre-amps are not going to be stellar, and your signal can be only as good as the weakest link in the chain.
 
Hey guys...I'm stumped with my rode ntg-2, when I use it with my h4n, the audio is so low coming in but when I use my sennheiser me66 the audio is so much louder. Any ideas why this would be, the rode is brand new?
 
I don't believe audio specs anymore, as many of the manufacturers either fib or leave out pertinent information.

The key things I want to know about any audio field recorder are:

1- What is the actual noise floor ?

2- How long do the batteries last ?

3- If the recorder has built-in mics, what do they sound like ?

4- How noisy are the mic pre-amps ?

...When I bought my Olympus LS-11, I was surprised to find out ( through testing ) that the noise floor was 10+ dB better than my older Olympus LS-10 recorder. The Olympus reps kept saying there wasn't much difference between the LS-10 and LS-11 models, but the truth was that these guys really didn't know. By doing my own tests I found the following main differences between these two models: The LS-11 had a 10+ dB lower noise-floor, the LS-11 had a better sounding low-end ( 150 Hz roll-off filter was gone ), a pair of rechargeable AA batteries would last 17 hours on one charge.

I would love to see somebody publish easily repeatable tests ( so that we can confirm the results ) that demo the actual performance of these field recorders. I will try and do this later this Spring if I can round up enough recorders to test. ( I own or have access to the following: Olympus LS-10 and LS-11, Zoom H1, Zoom H4n, Tascam DR-100, but I would like to throw more units in to the mix )
 
Lake Films, your question would be better served as it's own thread, rather than in a "stickie" post about under 300 recorders.

Dingo, I would love to see the results of that test. I would volunteer to help you on that, as I have a unique perspective on manufacturers, since I used to work for one.
 
Dingo, I would love to see the results of that test. I would volunteer to help you on that, as I have a unique perspective on manufacturers, since I used to work for one.

Coolio. I'll send you a PM when I'm closer to doing the test. ( likely sometime in February )
 
Thanks for your great stickie Alex! What do you think of *used* higher-end options such as a Fostex pd-6 or even a FR-2 as a field recorder? Obviously there are issues with trusting that the machine is still in decent shape, etc. And it seems that some of these older, nice machines might not be very suitable for "bag" field recording (operating with a boom etc).
 
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Anyone looking into the new azden fmx-dslr? For $285 it seems like a good choice to me over something like the h4n. I am just hesitant because it just came out and I would like to see some reviews on it first. Anyone have thoughts on it?
 
What do you think of *used* higher-end options such as a Fostex pd-6 or even a FR-2 as a field recorder? Obviously there are issues with trusting that the machine is still in decent shape, etc. And it seems that some of these older, nice machines might not be very suitable for "bag" field recording (operating with a boom etc).

Most of the higher-end recorders, new or used, are perfectly suitable for bag use. Used can be a great way to get what you want/need at a better price. As you say, you do need to be certain of the history and condition of the unit. As always, know your seller and "buyer beware".

Check out used Sound Devices recorders. They maintain their values a bit more than others, but you can still find some good deals.
 
Anyone looking into the new azden fmx-dslr? For $285 it seems like a good choice to me over something like the h4n. I am just hesitant because it just came out and I would like to see some reviews on it first. Anyone have thoughts on it?

The fist thing I notice is that it's from Azden. That's strike one.

No metering. Strike two.

Built-in AGC that's always on. Strike three, it's out. No need to go into all the other things I see in this box that make it a poor choice.
 
If you could get the Tascam DR100 and the Roland R-26 for the same amount (as I have an option currently) which one would you get. The R-26 looks really nice with the big touch screen and with nice gain controls in the front. In the near future I'll also pair it up with a mixer. Probably Mixpre-d. The only thing that I find better about DR100 is it's battery life. It has dual batteries that together last as I understand it 5 hours with one phantom power in use.
 
Hi am making a short film with a 5d and low budget and was thinking of buying a Sony Pro Walkman WM-D6C for field recordings
for the ambient soundtrack. Dialogue sync won't be an issue as I'll record this on something else.

The sound on the walkman's is really warm and clear-however would it be more advisable to buy something like a zoom h4n-
how do these compare in terms of sound quality? (-: Bebe
 
Hi am making a short film with a 5d and low budget and was thinking of buying a Sony Pro Walkman WM-D6C for field recordings for the ambient soundtrack.

What mics are you planning on using ?

FYI: I am teaching an introductory course on video production and have been looking for a low cost, but good sounding digital recorder. So far the winner in the low cost category is the Olympus LS-7, which sells for about $160. The LS-7 mics are very good, and the RMS noise floor of the recorder is -67 dB ( without limiter ) and -60 dB ( with limiter ) recording at 48 kHz 16-bit, which is the essentially the same as the Zoom H4n. ( -66 dB without limiter 48 kHz 24-bit ) A pair of AAA batteries will power the LS-7 recorder for 30+ hours. If you want a low cost recorder with a better noise floor, the Tascam DR-100 has a RMS noise floor of -89 dB recording at 48 kHz 16-bit/24-bit. ( bit depth makes no difference on the noise floor for this model )
 
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