The 2 sides ; 24fp vs. 24fp Advanced

N

NomadxJess

Member
The film I am working on has our first night of shooting tomorrow and I was curious as to the ups & downs of DVX100a 24 vs. 24advanced... Could someone please tell me the advantages and disadvantages?? I will be editing on a G5 with FCP HD and After Effects...

Thanks

Jesse Gullion
 
I shot 24p because I have no intentions going to film.
I can edit in a 29.97 timeline.

BUT...
I can also throw the footage int o Cinema Tools & reverse telecine the footage to 23.98
So I can edit in a 23.98 timeline as well.

I believe Graem Nattress just joined the DVX community here. He may be able to give better insight on what to use and why.
 
Unless you're going to film or specifically making a 24fps DVD there's not much point in converting 24p. Yes you can use Cinema Tools to do the conversion but if you plan to do 24fps then you're better off shooting 24pa from the start since it's easy to convert on the fly in FCP or other editors and produces a slightly better image.

You do mention effects- if you're planning to do much visual effects work in post it's likely to be easier with pure frames and for that I'd recommend 24pa. You can deal with 24p in after effects and other apps if you set it to remove pulldown but it'l be an easier and cleaner workflow with 24pa.
 
When I play some Betacam commercial tapes from 35mm at 24P, the "fields pattern" is 24P and not advanced, so if a real 35mm movie camera after telecine is 3:2 pulldown, I don't see the need for 24P Adv. I always could get the footage back to 24P without problems.

Ulisses
 
24pA allows you to remove the original 24 frames without having to recompress to footage. It lets you save a generation or two or quality. Well worth it. You can then write this 24 fps stream to DVD. The DVD player will then add the appropriate 2:3 pulldown. The advantages being:

Better compression (24fps vs 30)
More usable time
You can edit real frames so you don't get an occasional misplaced field due to a cut
 
24PA is more suitable for editing on a 24P timeline. It is superior to 24PN for that purpose.

If editing on a 60i/29.97 timeline, 24PN is all you need. But if editing on a 24p timeline, that's where the advantages of 24PA come in.
 
What about always shooting 24pa. Do your edits in a 24 timeline because of the quality reasons mentioned. Then, if you need 29.97, export the edited video with 2:3:2:3 added back in? Then you always have 24pa source material and can support either edit path.
 
Technically you can support either edit path from either mode; you just get a little bit of an advantage for 24P editing when using 24PA, and a little bit of an advantage in smoothness when editing 29.97.

But you can edit either, in either mode, neither mode locks you into any specific workflow.
 
Ok, stupid question. What exactly is a 24fps DVD? I've mostly shot in 24pN, edited on 29 fps timeline, saved as MPEG 2, then burned to DVD through iDVD or DVD Studio Pro 3. Obviously, thats NOT a 24 fps DVD, so, what is, and whats the difference?
 
Export a 23.98 sequence to DVD Studio Pro. it wil lcreate a 24fps DVD.
Difference is that your DVD player will add 2:3 pulldown if it needs to when it's played.
This is how most films are transferred to DVDs these days.
One advantage is they take up less space since you're only saving 24 images per second instead of 30.
 
The difference is that the data on a 24P DVD is stored as 24 frames per second, *not* as NTSC 29.97. It's the way Hollywood DVDs are encoded. It lets you get 20% more data on the disc, or you can use a lower compression ratio for better quality.

If the DVD is being played on a progressive-scan device, it can play back the pure raw 24p frames. If it's being played on an interlaced display, the DVD player will automatically add the pulldown back in to make it NTSC-compliant.

If you're shooting 24P, making a 24P DVD is the only way to go.
 
Thanks so much guys. As usual, everyone is so helpful here. I'm going to try experimenting tomorrow and over the weekend. Thanks again for the quick responses.
 
I've got a stupid question too...or maybe not that stupid. You tell me:

I'm reading y'all say shoot 24pN if editing in a 29.97 timeline and 24pA if editing in a 23.97 timeline. Fine, but what determines what format timeline you're editing in? Being new to this I would have thought you shoot 29.97 you edit 29.97. If you shoot 24p you edit 24. Why am I on a 29.97 timeline if I shoot 24p?
 
All footage out of the NTSC DVX is 29.97 so it can be displayed on regular video and be recorded on standard MiniDV format.
24 frames is converted to 29.97 by adding pulldown (process of spreading the frames over additional fields to make 5 'frames' from 4 so it's now at video rate)
The DVX can lay down 24fps in 2 different ways.
You then have the choice of converting it back to pure 24fps in editing or leaving it at 29.97.
Read the various documents already covered here along with
http://adamwilt.com/24p/index.html
http://www.squiresstudios.com/dvx100/dvx100fcp.html
 
Well I just deleted a few questions I had after reading the otherwise informative post above. After posting it I went right to the Squires Studio article and it summarized quite succinctly and addressed nicely much of my confusion about 24p vs. 24pa.

So much to learn. Thanks

alan b
 
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