FS7: Tests with FS7 and Odyssey 7Q+ using new Odyssey Firmware

C

ChristopherA

Well-known member
Since we have new firmware, I'm starting a new thread to continue the FS7 RAW to the Odyssey 7Q discussion.


All my tests show that with the new Odyssey firmware, the FS7 RAW to RAW (DNG) recording is working! I'm attaching a link so that anyone can download a 4k DNG frame I captured earlier today.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lt4c2rma8gybrvx/4kRAW_Test.dng?dl=1


The 4k RAW to 4k ProRes doesn't seem quite right. It's still adding a little extra contrast, but, fortunately, it no longer appears to be clipping the shadows. The colors seem to be a little off from the internal. If you look at the Vectorscopes below, you'll see that they're quite different.
Internal
Internal.jpg
Scopes-Internal.jpg

7Q+ ProRes (4k Raw to 4k ProRes)
ProRes.jpg
Scopes-ProRes.jpg


The big concern I have is with the level of noise in the 4k RAW to 4k ProRes Signal. I went back to the tests that I did prior to the firmware update, and there was virtually no visible noise. The tests I did today show significant noise.
Firmware: 4.1.100
4k-ProRes-Noise-4.1.jpg
Firmware: 5.1.100
4k-ProRes-Noise-5.1.jpg
 
The noise is probably because 4.1.100 crushed the blacks a lot more. However, I did notice the internal color checker vs. the 7Q checker is a lot noisier as well. This happened on the FS700 because the 7Q Pro-res was derived from the RAW which had no noise reduction, which in CineEI does not as well, so not sure why it would be an issue.

What I find disappointing is that the Gamma still seems quite off from the 7Q compared to the FS7. What settings did you use Christopher? I'm hoping it's a simple settings issue.

The 7Q is great as a monitor and backup to the internal codec, but I just don't really want to use the 4K Pro Res (the main reason I bought the XDCA unit) unless the image is identical to FS7 internal. I might be selling my XDCA as it's just a paper weight at this point (Still).

Hey Mitch, any guidance on this issue? Could it be a settings issue that's causing a miss-match between the internal and the 7Q?
 
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gene_can_sing said:
The noise is probably because 4.1.100 crushed the blacks a lot more. However, I did notice the internal color checker vs. the 7Q checker is a lot noisier as well. This happened on the FS700 because the 7Q Pro-res was derived from the RAW which had no noise reduction, which in Cinegamma does not as well, so not sure why it would be an issue.

What I find disappointing is that the Gamma still seems quite off from the 7Q compared to the FS7. What settings did you use Christopher? I'm hoping it's a simple settings issue.

The 7Q is great as a monitor and backup to the internal codec, but I just don't really want to use the 4K Pro Res (the main reason I bought the XDCA unit) unless the image is identical to FS7 internal. I might be selling my XDCA as it's just a paper weight at this point (Still).

Hey Mitch, any guidance on this issue? Could it be a settings issue that's causing a miss-match between the internal and the 7Q?
Click to expand...

Don't think it's a settings issue. Camera was set to CineEI, SGamut3/Slog3. This was shot outside (sunny day). White balance set to 5500k. No LUTs on.
 
ChristopherA said:
Don't think it's a settings issue. Camera was set to CineEI, SGamut3/Slog3. This was shot outside (sunny day). White balance set to 5500k. No LUTs on.
Click to expand...
I'll need to check with the engineers next week (when I'm back to work!) but I believe the "no LUTs on" is part of the issue. Sony doesn't tell us what that is, but it is not the same as being set to S-Log3. It's something...different.
 
I thought this was an issue of it being a linear signal with no log curve applied to it (as opposed to an slog3 one) coming out of the FS7 extension unit raw output, then being automatically being assigned a REC709ish gamma curve on the 7Q not unlike the current built-in LUT. The result being that at no point does anything in the chain see SLOG3 except on the EVF and/or if recording internally.

I have no idea how one goes about unravelling that but it's a massive pain and I can't begin to ascertain who needs to do what to make it all work as advertised. It does seem that a lot of the problems with the FS7 relate to this 'linear' raw thing and the lack of info available for shadows causing banding, and the issues with recorder like the 7Q having issues interpreting the signal.
 
Mitch Gross said:
I'll need to check with the engineers next week (when I'm back to work!) but I believe the "no LUTs on" is part of the issue. Sony doesn't tell us what that is, but it is not the same as being set to S-Log3. It's something...different.
Click to expand...
My testing indicated that at EI 2000, "MLUT Off" and "S-Log3" are identical, in terms of monitoring and internal recording. At other EI settings "MLUT off" is still effectively at EI 2000, but "S-Log3" applies EI dependant gain to the linear data before applying the S-Log3 curve.

The RAW output was unaffected.
 
Just bought the 7Q+ and had to make a major firmware upgrade with it and as well as the long awaiting FS7 firmware. But all the updates went smoothly. Loving the new features on the FS7 like ProRes and camera mic on ch3+4. Still sorting out all the other new features on the camera but it's really quite nice.
And the Odyssey 7Q+ is amazing. It also needed a major firmware update but what a device. If I only used it as a monitor it would have been worth the money. But the recording features, the ease of operation and the ergonomics are just fantastic. And lets not forget that you get two free 256gbs cards in the deal. This summer they will have a paid update that will allow dual stream recording. Kind of a heady price of about $1000 but then you will have what is in effect is two recorders for less than the price of buying two.
I'm also being told there are some even newer and more fantastic features being released in the near future.
Money well spent.
 
I do have to say even though I don't need it at the moment, the current free offer of two 256gbs - and the fact that Mitch (kudos to you, man) responds on these forums is making me lean toward a new small field monitor...
 
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