tested some dialog with the NTG-3 and DR100- a few questions please

roei z

roei z

Veteran
just wanted to clarify 4 things:

- sorry for sounding a bit noob, but -
do i record a stereo track and use only one channel? or record mono?

- i recall an advice of sticking around -20db.. is this right or should i go higher?
it sounds a bit low, but perhaps it's the optimum level? not sure.

- do i use the NTG with the exact levels used for the dialog to complete roomtone & ambient ?
or should i set a higher level for that?

- all ambient should also be recorded mono with the NTG?
or perhaps using the DR100 for stereo ambient? (almost sure this is not necessary but just in case i missed any info on that)

thanks!
 
roei z said:
do i record a stereo track and use only one channel? or record mono?
Click to expand...

It will help to understand the difference between "stereo" and "mono" audio. Mono is short for "monaural" which means that it has one spatial dimension. Even if played back on a 2-channel, 2-speaker system... if it plays on both channels with equal amplitude, it is mono. When recorded to two channels at the same level, it's dual mono.

Stereo (another name for binaural) means that the audio has two spatial dimensions: left and right. The two channels work with each other in order to create a sense of "depth" to the sound. This is accomplished by differences in playback level of any given source between the two channels. All a "pan" control does is attenuate the source level in one or both channels.

When you record with a single mic, you are recording mono whether to one channel or two. Recording to two channels (using a "mono" setting on the recorder to direct one input to both channels) can be helpful, especially if you have the ability to lower the recording level on the second channel. That gives you a "safety" track in case a sudden peak happens to overmodulate on the first channel.

When you record one mic in dual mono, you use only one of the tracks in post.

roei z said:
- i recall an advice of sticking around -20db.. is this right or should i go higher?
it sounds a bit low, but perhaps it's the optimum level? not sure.
Click to expand...

Dialog should average around -20 with peaks around -12dB, and sudden peaks (shouts and loud claps) around -6dB.

roei z said:
- do i use the NTG with the exact levels used for the dialog to complete roomtone & ambient ?
or should i set a higher level for that?

- all ambient should also be recorded mono with the NTG?
or perhaps using the DR100 for stereo ambient? (almost sure this is not necessary but just in case i missed any info on that)
Click to expand...

There's a difference between ambient sound beds and room tone. Ambient sound beds are what add realistic background sounds to the mix. These are not generally recorded during primary production, but are recorded separately and in other environments. Ambient sound beds are typically in stereo or, nowadays, in surround. Stereo should suffice.

Room tone, on the other hand, is a recording of the natural noise floor on-set/on-location. It is used to smooth out dialog edits. It should be recorded using the same audio system, at the same settings, as the dialog. Normally, room tone is recorded immediately after a take/scene, asking all on the set to "lock it down" (hold still) for :30-:60. Room tone should include any extraneous sounds that were present during the take (including lighting ballasts), and should be recorded every time the production moves to a new location (or if the background noises change during production in one location).
 
thanks. so you're saying to use the DR100's own stereo mics to record the ambient beds, right?
 
Sort of, but not necessarily. The internal stereo mic array on a portable recorder like this is ample for recording of many ambient sound beds that will be mixed into the background, but there are better stereo mic arrays out there if you want to get that serious about it. There are some really good stereo mics (two mic elements in one chassis), and there are microphone techniques that use two separate mics to record a stereo image.

The advantages of an external stereo microphone array are better mic quality and better control over the stereo image. That said, if the DR100's internal mics are all you have at this point they're a fine place to start.
 
that's all i have.. anyway, this will be more useful as ambient beds than recording mono with the NTG-3, right ?
 
It all depends on what you're recording, but yes... ambient sound beds are usually in stereo. Where the NTG-3 comes in is for dialog or SFX or Foley.
 
C2V has pretty well covered it. Ambiences are recorded in stereo something like 99.9999% of the time. You will find older ones in mono but as a rule those were done when mono was a very common release format, say before the mid 80's. SFX are mixed. A flip but decent rule of thumb is that if the sound is bigger than your head you should be recording in stereo. Small sounds are usually recorded in mono, because that is how they are used. But a small sound in a cave may be a big sound so it's your call. Anything you want to place on the screen will probably want to be mono. A door open for instance is usually placed on the screen where the door is on the screen and in that case you would want mono. But it is also very common in post to take a stereo recording and just use one side when you want that sound in mono. Which is why folks generally lean to stereo most of the time for SFX recording.

If your going to use the built in mics I would recommend you rig up some kind of shock mount for it because the small recorders are very susceptible to handling noise, so holding it directly is probably not a good idea.

And when recording ambiences you want at least a minute and a half of clean recording. So if you get 30 sec. in and someone asks "Is that a recorder?" you have to deal with them and start over. Short ambience takes will make using them much harder in post. I generally aim at 3 min.

Also bring a watch a min and a half is a LOT longer than you think. You want to be set up and not move the whole recording. Don't wave the recorder around, you want one perspective for the whole take.
 
this is better than film school :) so much fun reading this.
thanks Noiz2. i guess i'll place the DR100 somewhere and use the remote.
BTW- DOES the DR100 has separate levels when recording dual mono?
 
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