Terrible banding when changing opacity in NLE

S

silvio bonomi

Member
...a simple test. Shoot at a clear blu sky. Put naturally exposition at right level...put the clip on timeline of your NLE.Now the Clip at 100% of video level is ok: no artefact, no banding, no noise...the blu is uniform and perfect. Now put two keyframes and do a level ramp from 0% to 100 % ( a fade in...or a fade out is the same ok ?) ...duration a second or two is not important . Now play the clip or go frame by frame and look the result : is simply orrible. I've try : Final Cut with L&T, Premier CS5 native, EDIUS native or with Canopus HQ transcode, the result is the same.
I' m very frustrated.

silvio bonomi
 
Can you provide a download link to a sample .MTS file of the type of sky you are talking about ?

I am pretty sure I can make this work, but need sample footage of the sky to demo this.
 
Welcome to the world of 8-bit cameras. Tons of cameras have this issue, you're not alone and neither is the AF100. There are a lot of ways to help combat this. For instance, adding a slight noise filter to help offset some of the banding during something like a fade. You could even have the noise only active during the fade then go away...just to help with the issue. I've shot on DV, HDV, AVCHD, etc. and they all have this problem to a degree.

You're not experiencing much a lot of others aren't. Also you could be making things a lot worse on yourself by doing your fade using something like a Levels Keyframe as opposed to an Opacity keyframe to 0 or a normal fade from your software.
 
Instead of changing the clips opacity, create a black frame say 20 frames long, put it above the clip, and ramp the opacity.

Done.
 
....the clip without fade in or fade out on it: NOT HAS VISIBLE BANDING... Repeat: I've try with 3 NLE. EDIUS ( native or CANOPUS HQ TRANSCODING) , PREMIERE CS5 (native) , FCP ( L&T transcode in PRO RES HQ) the result is the same. Clip is perfect if make the clip without fade...apply fade and...bum....tons of banding that increase more the fade tend from 100 to 0 or viceversa.
 
I just took a shot with sky in it that had banding from the fade (one of my shots) and the banding was slight and only towards mid-fade. I added the Final Cut Pro "Add Noise" filter. Turned it all the way down to 0.02 (can't even see the noise at all), changed type to film grain, monochrome...and bingo the fade is smooth and perfect.

We understand what you're saying Silvio, but what you're experiencing isn't abnormal. You have to work around the 8-bit limitations...that's just how it goes.
 
KyleProhaska said:
I just took a shot with sky in it that had banding from the fade (one of my shots) and the banding was slight and only towards mid-fade. I added the Final Cut Pro "Add Noise" filter. Turned it all the way down to 0.02 (can't even see the noise at all), changed type to film grain, monochrome...and bingo the fade is smooth and perfect.

We understand what you're saying Silvio, but what you're experiencing isn't abnormal. You have to work around the 8-bit limitations...that's just how it goes.
Click to expand...

Hi Kyle....yes adding noise the problem disappear...but WHY ??? This problem after export final work on a BLU RAY and seen on a LCD or PLASMA TV increase a lot ( banding on banding....) and final result is very terrible... also no more expert viewer note this...
 
Interesting I have never had a problem with banding while shooting with the hmc 150 for over 2 years. It's avccam but ccd.
 
Bucknfl said:
Interesting I have never had a problem with banding while shooting with the hmc 150 for over 2 years. It's avccam but ccd.
Click to expand...

As another HMC-150 user, I suspect it all has to do with how the footage is processed and the software used, which is why I would like to try my hand with the original poster's raw MTS file.
 
Not entirely true. All the P2 cameras are 4:2:2, but the older DVCPRO-HD codec is an 8-bit codec, and the HPX170/HVX200 and HPX500 are all 8-bit cameras since they record only to DVCPRO-HD.

All the cameras that have AVC-Intra on them are full 10-bit cameras (so, HPX2000/2100, HPX3000/3100, HPX2700, HPX3700, HPX300/370, and the new HPX250 are all full 10-bit.)
 
Barry_Green said:
Not entirely true. All the P2 cameras are 4:2:2, but the older DVCPRO-HD codec is an 8-bit codec, and the HPX170/HVX200 and HPX500 are all 8-bit cameras since they record only to DVCPRO-HD.

All the cameras that have AVC-Intra on them are full 10-bit cameras (so, HPX2000/2100, HPX3000/3100, HPX2700, HPX3700, HPX300/370, and the new HPX250 are all full 10-bit.)
Click to expand...
Sorry, my mistake.
Barry you're right!
 
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