scorsesefan
Veteran
Is it possible to jam timecode from a Track E (US) to a c70? Thanks
Tentacle Track E timecode
- Thread starter scorsesefan
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scorsesefan
Veteran
Thanks, Alex. Is this also true on the US version where the headphone port is disabled during recording? I’ve seen various reports online.
I would assume the workflow would be jamming the camera at the start of the day, then re-jamming at lunch. Again after 2nd meal if the day goes that long, but otherwise not trying to use it as a dedicated lock-it box.
I’m honestly not sure if the headphone output remains disabled during recording if being used for TC output. That would be a question for Tentacle, and they’re pretty responsive.
Stupid Zaxcom patent.
I’m honestly not sure if the headphone output remains disabled during recording if being used for TC output. That would be a question for Tentacle, and they’re pretty responsive.
Stupid Zaxcom patent.
scorsesefan
Veteran
Looks like you can’t output tc with the US version. Thanks Zaxcom!
You can, apparently just not while in record mode. The Zaxcom patent prevents headphone output during recording, to prevent sending that output to a transmitter and thus having record AND transmit features working together.
So, again, jam the camera once at the start of the day and before you start recording on the Track E. Do so again at lunch if you need to, and again after 2nd meal on longer days.
Or, grab a Tentacle Sync E to keep on the camera, and use the Tentacle app to sync the two devices.
scorsesefan
Veteran
I found a good deal on a Tentacle Sync v2 so I ordered it. I do a lot of run and gun work so probably a better solution…
Jim Feeley
Veteran
Bummer about the Track E. Glad you found another TC generator
BTW- The timecode on my C70 isn't super stable and consistent. So when dealing with timecode, I don't jam it, I leave the TC generator attached to the camera. If just jamming, at least plan to rejam after a few hours.
BTW- The timecode on my C70 isn't super stable and consistent. So when dealing with timecode, I don't jam it, I leave the TC generator attached to the camera. If just jamming, at least plan to rejam after a few hours.
That’s good to know! I haven’t been on but one show so far that used the C70, and I had a Sync E on there the whole time as that’s just my standard workflow. But sometimes rate negotiations result in requests to trim down some non-essential gear to lower costs, and sometimes timecode boxes are dropped. With some cameras, you can jam and release as long as you re-jam periodically. If that comes up on a C70 shoot, though, I’ll definitely keep that in mind.
Yeah, but he’s using the Track E to mic talent, and the Sync E to keep cameras jammed. That’s the ideal workflow, rather than trying to get a Track E to do both at the same time.
Yeah, and that’s the result of the Zaxcom patent. Even with that out of the equation, having a dedicated TC box (separate from audio recorder) for the camera is the best way to go.
Run&Gun
Veteran
I couldn’t tell you the last time that I just “jammed and ran”. IMO, it kind of defeats the purpose of having sync boxes if you’re not going to leave them on the equipment. But I still see people do it all too often.
I remember the OG C300 was abysmal at keeping TC. It would noticeably drift within 30 minutes or so.
scorsesefan
Veteran
Thanks, I’ll have to keep an eye out for that. I wonder if some of the other cinema cameras (fx6/fx9 etc.) have the same issue?
I work on a lot of shows that are FX9/FX6. They hold quite well, but I have had fairly frequent issues with the cameras losing TC sync altogether, and not in a way that having the TC box on the camera can fix (as there is a box connected all day). It seems this happens most often with the camera op switches to S&Q, and then back on speed. For some reason, these cameras occasionally (frequently, but not always) reset their TC values coming out of S&Q, and it takes a bit of a song and dance to get the TC to re-jam. More often than not, we’ll end up having to power-cycle the camera.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
Ya, Alex covers the problems with TC in modern cameras when jamming (in the "connect, jam, disconnect" use of the term). Though smaller mirrorless camera still tend to be worse. The C70, at least the one I own and another I've rented fall somewhere between smaller mirrorless/hybrid cameras and ARRI in terms of keeping sync... i.e., it's pretty good but not perfect; I haven't done careful measurements of the drift, though.
Wearing my audio hat (with cutouts for headphones), I want a TC box on every camera (with my recorder as the master). These days I use Denecke JB-1 sync boxes (I like the little screen and replaceable battery), but Tentacle's stuff works fine... Oh, and I get the same pushback Alex does from producers trying to control budgets... But I really don't want to just kick TC issues down the road to post... Most producers get that.
You didn't ask, but for mounting I have velcro hook/hard side on the TC boxes, and will also use bongo ties. Though Tentacle sells this nice-looking quick release system made by LanParte: https://shop.tentaclesync.com/product/sync-e-bracket-with-quick-release-mount/
Kondor Blue has one, too. I'd guess there are a bunch out there: https://kondorblue.com/collections/cage-adapters/products/tentacle-sync-e-caddy-mount
Wearing my audio hat (with cutouts for headphones), I want a TC box on every camera (with my recorder as the master). These days I use Denecke JB-1 sync boxes (I like the little screen and replaceable battery), but Tentacle's stuff works fine... Oh, and I get the same pushback Alex does from producers trying to control budgets... But I really don't want to just kick TC issues down the road to post... Most producers get that.
You didn't ask, but for mounting I have velcro hook/hard side on the TC boxes, and will also use bongo ties. Though Tentacle sells this nice-looking quick release system made by LanParte: https://shop.tentaclesync.com/product/sync-e-bracket-with-quick-release-mount/
Kondor Blue has one, too. I'd guess there are a bunch out there: https://kondorblue.com/collections/cage-adapters/products/tentacle-sync-e-caddy-mount
scorsesefan
Veteran
@Jim Feeley Thanks. I've never used a TC workflow (I've always used Pluraleyes, but that software was killed). My main concern with the C70 is that it won't be a quick enough set up as I shoot a lot of fast run n' gun doc stuff...
Movies by Matt
Well-known member
A couple thoughts regarding one person doc work and timecode:
1. Don’t use velcro to mount the box, definitely get something more permanent (preferably Arri 3/8 style with the registration pins…I abhor things I’ve attached to the camera moving in ways or times I don’t expect.)
2. Plan to mount it full time and keep the camera jammed with a dedicated device. What’s not quick is having to change camera batteries and deal with setting up the jam again if it’s not permanently affixed to the camera.
3. Timecode is not sub frame accurate. It will get you extremely close but I still use waveforms to sync accurately after I match timecode.
4. A small workflow detail I do on the C300v2 is I use it to set the original timecode i want, output it to my Betso TCX2, then change the menu in the Canon timecode menu from output to input and my Betso becomes the master which i will use to jam other devices (MixPre, PDR’s) and then reconnect it to my camera.
5. I add the Timecode options to my “favorites” menu.
1. Don’t use velcro to mount the box, definitely get something more permanent (preferably Arri 3/8 style with the registration pins…I abhor things I’ve attached to the camera moving in ways or times I don’t expect.)
2. Plan to mount it full time and keep the camera jammed with a dedicated device. What’s not quick is having to change camera batteries and deal with setting up the jam again if it’s not permanently affixed to the camera.
3. Timecode is not sub frame accurate. It will get you extremely close but I still use waveforms to sync accurately after I match timecode.
4. A small workflow detail I do on the C300v2 is I use it to set the original timecode i want, output it to my Betso TCX2, then change the menu in the Canon timecode menu from output to input and my Betso becomes the master which i will use to jam other devices (MixPre, PDR’s) and then reconnect it to my camera.
5. I add the Timecode options to my “favorites” menu.
Peter C.
Veteran
I have repeatedly come back to timecode but every time I delve into it I find it's easier to send audio directly into the camera or do an audio sync. All the major editors include it free. Timecode makes sense for more complicated bigger projects where you're handing footage off to someone else to edit. There are also situations where wide camera in a loud environment won't audio sync or many cameras don't record audio for slow motion. Although timecode only works when all devices are set to the same frame rate and S&Q messes up timecode, there often needs an offset applied, doesn't prevent drift, its expensive, adds more complexity...
Jim Feeley
Veteran
SF, what sort of setup are you planning for your verite/R&G days? How many audio tracks and cameras?
I use my C70 for verite-style solo shooting a lot. Works well for that, overall. And in my opinion, the C70's audio is pretty good. Nice preamps, good limiter. And I say this as a location-audio guy. Doesn't match the quality and flexibility of my Sound Devices recorders (or those from Zaxcom, etc)... But pretty damn decent; on sit-down interviews I'll run my Schoeps 641 mics straight to the camera and it's fine. Even the 3.5mm input (for channels 3 & 4) are OK with wireless.
I'll typically have a four-inch-long Sanken CS-M1 as an on-camera mic, but I think something short from Deity or someone else would be OK, too. For wireless, I switch between a Lectro receiver in a belly pouch and run cables to the camera (better quality and less weight to hold)... and a Deity Theos system that I'm still getting used to (I need to upgrade my higher-end wireless... Wisycom? SD/Audio Ltd? Lector? Zac?...still fretting). Anyway, if you're rolling with something like a Sennheiser G3 or G4 system, try it straight into the camera. Seriously; it's not bad.
As for TC headaches, I use it when we have a dedicated audio recorder, two or more cameras, and/or a TC slate. (The slate is still useful, but really it also impresses the producer's clients). Like Peter says, you can avoid TC and just send scratch audio to the camera; that'll work. Just depends on the job, what post wants, and all that.
Not saying my approach and ears are better than everyone else's, but this is how I usually roll these days...