Tension Between DP and Director

Re: Tension Between DP and Director

[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=news;num=1101047693;start=30#39 date=11/29/04 at 13:34:58]I think what I'm talking about isn't simply a matter of taste or effort, it's a matter of caring.  It's in some bizzare sense of the word, a matter of self-respect, or at least respect for the story. [/quote]

Then we are definately on the same page. ;)
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

Maybe I should be the one to clarify, by poorly lit I mean that when dp and director disagree and dp walks off saying that it's crap, that means lighting only, not audio or picture quality, etc.  But when the dp is upset, is it truly poor lighting ideas or is it poor because it's not the dp's vision?  Maybe.  If a scene is lit by ten different dp's, you will get ten different interpretations and some will be better than others, too.
I totally agree that some films are painful to watch due to one poor technical reason or another, but if a show you enjoy suddenly changes it's lighting scheme to something you don't particularly like, does the writing, acting, etc. suffer along with it?  My answer is no.
When I was working in LA long ago, one evening Steven Spielberg was sitting in my bosses office discussing the creation of the Jurassic Park trailer, and we spoke at length about the movie process.  He commented that his company gets tons of short films by film students and that most of the lighting was sub-par at best, and that he didn't pay much attention to that.  Good story, acting and direction is what he looks for.




Like pretentious interior decorators, (they) make films that strike the eye and nothing more.
- Robert McKee
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

But he's looking for raw talent, not a finished product.  And I'm sure that he'd be even more impressed with a film student that had the whole package. Not to mention that Spielberg gets to hire a DP for his films. He may know how to light a scene, but he doesn't actually have to do it. As an indie fiklmmaker, I need to know that, because I can't really count on that from anybody (Same for audio, editing, and everything else. You should have a basic knowledge of the whole process.)
But I see where you are going with the beginning of your post.  What you are talking about though (IMHO) is a debate between different types of "Good" lighting.  Good meaning competent.  You could further debate that with examples of movies that were initially considered to be "poorly lit" like the Godfather, that are now classics.  But again to me the bottom line is "Does it distract the viewer from the viewing experience?"  IF the answer is yes, then I think there's something that needs to be rethought.  OF course, as an "artist" you have the option to interpret something as you see fit, but what I think some of us are warning against is not a subjective choice of style, or interpretation, but rather ignorance at best, or laziness at worst.  That's the part I worry about.  It took me exactly one short to realize what bad lighting was, and I won't do it again.  My stories deserve more, and to be fair, lighting in a competent fashion is not that hard.
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

On the whole, I think I can agree with both those statements, however just in response to part of sojrn's statement...

obviously there are many interperetive opinions about lighting, and there can be a million different ways to light a shot...however I suggest that while a shot might be lit 10 different ways...the one that is lit poorly will stand out like a sore thumb.

I agree that there are subjective differences in the way you can go about lighting, and you may or may not agree with each individual aproach...however, bad lighting generally crosses all lines of taste.

I don't think we're in disagreement, just clarifying that I'm really speaking more to BAD lighting versus some kind of lighting I don't like. (obviously that's opening a whole can of worms if we start to try and figure out what the hell that statement means!)
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=news;num=1101047693;start=30#43 date=11/30/04 at 08:01:21]
I don't think we're in disagreement, just clarifying that I'm really speaking more to BAD lighting versus some kind of lighting I don't like.  (obviously that's opening a whole can of worms if we start to try and figure out what the hell that statement means!)[/quote]

OPEN IT! OPEN IT!!!

actually I think that good lighting is subjective, but bad lighting is pretty universal.
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

[quote author=Jim Brennan link=board=news;num=1101047693;start=30#44 date=11/30/04 at 10:47:36]

actually I think that good lighting is subjective, but bad lighting is pretty universal.
[/quote]

That was exactly what I was trying to say, but my brain keeps getting in the way.
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

Great replies everyone. I am not in disagreement with anyone. A good discussion can really get the (valued) opinions going.


Re: The can of worms...anybody want to go fishing?
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

Sorry to get in this so late, but I've been on the road.

It's a tough call when your stuck with what you think is a bad director and bad project due to it. I try to not to argue with my director on set unless it's an issue of safety, then I stand my ground. I usually will suggest things, like if the actors moves to this spot the framing will be better or you should shoot a close up of this to help in cutting. A few times I have politely argued and in the end agreed to shoot the shot. A few times I was proved wrong and sometimes I'm proved right.

I've only walked off one project. I should have walked before we even left to shoot. I could see that thid director for whom I'd shot before had turned into a total ass. I agreed to shoot for three days and then I walked. He treated everybody on the set like they were children who'd never shot a movie before. (At that point I'd shot 10 features and won an Emmy, so I knew a few things about filmmaking.) He had no script and was literally making the movie as he went along. This could have been fun with a talented and pleasant director, but he was neither. On the last day, he said to everybody, "I think this will be a kids movie."
I didn't quit on set. After the third day we has some down time, I called and said I would not be returning. He started berating me and calling me a pussy. I wanted to explode, but I just said I didn't see where working with him on this project was going to do anything for my career and I hung up.

In the end it's the director's call. A lot of these problems could be ironed out in pre-production. Sometimes you have to grit your teeth and plow through the work.

Scott
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

Great comment, and great point about the safety issue. It can't be stressed enough that the safety of crew and cast must never be compromised by anyone's vision or wishes.

Lest we all turn into John Landis.
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

The pre-shoot meetings are extremely important to get issues out of the way. If you have doubts about what the director is after, they should be settled before the shoot. I went into a shoot on a short (freebee) 2 years ago in which we had a pre-shoot meeting ( 2 camera guys) and the director explained what he wanted to do and how he saw the process. I agreed that what he wanted was a good approach and signed on for a 5 day shoot. Mind you, this was not a job per say. The plan we had so carefully made went right out the window. The shoot was not approached professionally from the get go. Hell, I brought a sony field monitor to the party and the guy didn't even feel the need to use it. I finished that first day and quit the shoot. Sometimes, you need to get out when it's apparent the Director does not know what he's doing. Either that or pull you credits. :P
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

I use to have the same problem when I DP for a short project and the director doesn't really know what he wants or how to shoot a scene. Sometimes I feel like overdirecting the director, but I guess they need to make their mistake and learn from it. Now when I direct my own films, I just DP so the only tension is between myself.
 
Re: Tension Between DP and Director

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=news;num=1101047693;start=0#12 date=11/22/04 at 10:33:43]ultimately the DIRECTOR is the boss; PERIOD.
[/quote]

No, Tony Danza was the boss.
 
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