Television Frame Rate

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DailyFilmFix

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Years ago, I shot a lot with the DVX100 and then moved on to a variety of Sony cameras in HDV and then to the DSLRs. Yesterday, I picked up an HMC150 and will be using it for my local television show moving forward. Previously, I've been using a little Sony MC50U for the show (local cable) and doing sync sound with a Zoom. Sit down interviews have been shot with the Sony Nex-5 as well as the Canon DSLR (the T2i).

Anyway, my question concerns frame rate choices. On the set up that I've been using, the Sony50U is an interlaced video camera. And for tripod interviews, I've been using either the Sony Nex-5 with my old prime lenses or my Canon DSLR. With the Nex-5, it shoots in 30p in an AVCHD interlaced container from what I can discern. I bring that into FCP as Pro Res progressive footage.

Anyway, on a new project, I may mix footage from the three cameras. I'm tempted to shoot with the Canon and the HMC150 in 720/60p. What do you guys think of that?

And I'd really like to use the Sony Nex-5 for all my interviews. The reason is that the Canon won't shoot as long and often exhibits heat issues. Since the Sony does not shoot in 720 and won't do 60p, will I have any problems with the difference in frame rate between the 1080/30p footage and the 720/60p footage?

Thanks, it is good to be back on this forum.
 
One other thing, I read in Barry's book on the HMC (which is really great, better than the old DVX one) that certain networks use certain frame rates. I have preliminarily chosen 720/60p based on his recommendations. Still, I'd like to hear thoughts from the working and experienced.
 
Its going to mostly depend on your final output resolution/frame rate. Whats the network want??

60i can be converted into 30p pretty effectively and of course 60p can too. With the settings and cameras your mentioning 720/30p would probably be your best output. Its one of my favorite outputs - combination of enough quality, fast enough for more action, and also smaller export sizes.

Welcome back!
 
Thanks! I just emailed the station manager, who has been fine with my MC50U footage, and told him that I'm going to try 720/60p. Yesterday, he told me that that was cool. He's been shooting his local commercials for the station with a Canon 60D, which is great.

I'm thinking that the Sony Nex-5 footage, which will look great, will not raise any concerns. I'm going to mix the two cameras on my shoot tonight just for kicks and see how the edit goes. My thought is to bring the HMC150 footage first into the timeline and then render the Nex-5 footage into those settings also using FCP.

If the show get's pitched, I doubt that the pitch sizzle reel or footage will be spec'd, because the actual show would be shot by another team approved by the network.

Here's last week's show that is running on two small cable stations: http://dailyfilmfix.com/?p=1468

That footage was shot with the little 50U.

Here's an "arty" segment I shot with the Nex-5: http://dailyfilmfix.com/?p=1368
 
Here's my first show shot in 720/60p with the HMC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzaW95BQFqY

I really liked using the camera. Of course, since we shot on a near perfect day outside, the image was excellent, but the workflow in FCP seemed faster than with my Sony cameras (the Nex-5 and the Sony 50U).

I plan on shooting something over the next week using the Nex-5 and the HMC150 and see how they match. In addition, I may try the Canon set up to shoot 720/60p and see how they compare as well. Anyone matching these cameras for shooting local TV?

Also, I've been fooling around with scene settings. Next Tuesday, we will be shooting on the street using mostly street lights (I will bring a little on camera light, just in case). I'd like to know what scene setting is good in low light for man on the street type shooting. Any suggestions?
 
All networks (NTSC) broadcast at 60 Hz. You can still do 24p and 30p, but when you render out for broadcast, it must be done in a 60 hz stream (whether it's 1080/60i or 720/60p).
 
That is a good point. I think that I've been exporting the projects in 60 hz for years. Barry's book says that ABC broadcasts their HD in 720/60p, for example. I'm not shooting for ABC--it is local. But I'm planning on shooting everything in 720/60p unless someone tells me not to.
 
30P can be converted to 60P no problem, it will just double the frames to fit 60P. You would get the same "look" but in a 60P container.

I would pick my "look" first then decide frame rate and transcode/convert to my output format.

1080 24p and 30p can be converted to 1080 60i without losing the progessiveness of the footage. (No 1080 60P obviously.) Both can be transcoded down to 720 60P if necessary.

720 24p and 30P can be converted to 720 60p. (and 1080 60i like above). 720 60P can be transcoded to 1080 60i but will no longer be progressive.

60P is often used for a more "real" or "video" look or for fast action like sports.

There is a list of which networks broadcast in what format. Also, most cable providers only provide a 720 60P signal to their consumers. In Canada, Bell, Rogers, Shaw and Telus all send a 720 60P signal regardless of what network it is coming from. So a 720 format of some sort is a safe bet for acquisition, quality wise for the near future.

If you have to deliver 1080 60i and you are covering sports then I would probably go with 1080 60i acquisition.
 
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DailyFilmFix said:
That is a good point. I think that I've been exporting the projects in 60 hz for years. Barry's book says that ABC broadcasts their HD in 720/60p, for example. I'm not shooting for ABC--it is local. But I'm planning on shooting everything in 720/60p unless someone tells me not to.
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If it's for a network affiliate, then whatever the network broadcasts in, chances are that's what the station broadcasts in.

But like David says... shoot in whatever you want, just make sure that when it's output to the delivery format, it's in whatever the station wants.
 
Sorry, I've not responded. I've been hanging with the family.

I'm very pleased with my latest show using the HMC150. I could always be sharper on camera from a content perspective, of course. My co-host was not available--he covered the Panda flick. A cameraman bud handled the camera, so, I did not have to self-shoot, which is always nice. His camera is the 60D and he's good with it.

The local station was very happy as well (of course, they are SD). We will be shooting our X-Men review on Tuesday afternoon with the camera. We see this little movie called "Submarine" in the morning on Tuesday, so, we'll review it as well. Gotta love "The IT Crowd."

Anyway, I think I'm married to 720/60p for a while. I got hired to shoot a pitch pilot reality show for a friend and I think I'll shoot it in the same format. I own a T2i and that Sony Nex-5 with all manner of lenses. My favorite camera is the Nex-5. It is the shoot length, the screen flips out, and it does not overheat (in my experience). But the native when deinterlaced is 30p as I said above. And Denwa says that it can be converted to 60p with no problems. Man, I sure hope that's right. I think that FCP will do that automatically, but I'm not sold on that workflow.

I'm considering using Compressor, but I wonder about the bitrate. Preliminary tests have yielded good looking footage but the bit or date rate needs to be higher, I think. The Sony Nex-5 tops out at 17mbps. I will always shoot at that rate with the camera. And this is not of "broadcast" quality, which is open for debate depending on what type of show it is. Of course, I'd love to shoot at a higher rate, and the Panasonic does shoot at as high as 24 (right?), but for my little show, I'll have to deal with what I have. And I understand that "real" TV shows for networks shoot at much higher date rates.

What would be you guys' thoughts on converting AVCHD 1080i60 (that is from a 30p sensor) to 60p? What would be the workflow? And would it hold up? Any 3rd party software that can be counted on?
 
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