Tascam DR680

J

Jason Finnigan

Active member
Has anyone got the Tascam DR680 for a field recorder? what are the advantages/disadvantage over the Zoom h4n? and will it keep sync with video or does it have sync issues?
 
This is apples and oranges as far as recorder comparisons go. Do you need a two-track recorder with built-in stereo mics, or do you need to iso several tracks? Can your workflow live with a clumsy hand-held, or is bag-friendly an important item? Is pre-amp quality important to you?

Read this: LINK

As for sync, without a master clock between camera and recorder you will always have some degree of drift.
 
A simple search will answer your questions.

Youre comparing two very different animals in so many ways.. but either way plenty of information is covered if you do a search for each.
 
If you need the additional features, want a more professional recorder, and are willing to pay x2.5 the price, yes a 680 is worth every penny more.

Grant
 
All of these recorders "keep sync" to a very high degree. But the only way to really be in sync is to lock the camera and recorder together. So your simple question is actually complicated. If your camera is not capable of being locked to a recorder then no recorder is going to hold sync for long because your camera is going to drift.

For practical purposes on takes under ten min or so you will have no sync issue because of the Tascam. Your camera may however drift and so it may toss off the sync. Pretty much any current camera in good working order should be stable enough that the ten min. takes will not be a problem. You might get a lot longer but I wouldn't count on it.

As in you can probably get 20 - 40 min with out having a noticeable drift but I would do tests first to verify before I tried it on something important.
 
longer shoots are required for me, as I do weddings we have multiple HMC150's and GH1's. I used to have a Zoom H4n but parted with it. if I went with the zoom h4n I would need to get 2 or 3 unit's to get our lapels as well as some direct outs from house board. multiple zoom's allows the flexibility of multiple locations (one a mixer, one on camera rig etc) but I like the tascam dr680 it would have enough inputs I'm just not sure if it would get out of sync by the end of a 30min+/- ceremony, obviously the reception isn't a big deal since it's all short clips anyhow.
 
You are going to have drift. Again, please read the sticky I linked above, as it talks a little about why that happens.

Correcting for the drift isn't terribly difficult, and can be done quickly before you start editing.
 
I know it happens and why it happens.. my question is more of if the dirft would be noticeable. I don't want a unit where I would have to resync the audio multiple times during a single shoot.. I use puraleyes to sync all my footage an audio together for the initial syncing. but for most of the weddings we are asked to shoot it would not be feasible to resync in the middle (we do multicamera shoots, but nothing edited out for the ceremony, the reception isn't a big deal as far as sync I use on-board mics half the time anyway for that)
 
Jason Finnigan said:
I know it happens and why it happens.. my question is more of if the dirft would be noticeable. I don't want a unit where I would have to resync the audio multiple times during a single shoot.. I use puraleyes to sync all my footage an audio together for the initial syncing. but for most of the weddings we are asked to shoot it would not be feasible to resync in the middle (we do multicamera shoots, but nothing edited out for the ceremony, the reception isn't a big deal as far as sync I use on-board mics half the time anyway for that)
Click to expand...

Not sure exactly what kind of "re-sync" you're talking about, then. Syncing during a shoot and syncing in post (manually, or using PluralEyes) are two completely different things.

During the shoot, you really need to make a new sync mark (slate, clapper, etc.) any time you stop and restart either camera or audio recorder. But for 30+ minute takes, just let them roll and deal with it in post.

During post, once you have your video clips matched in with your audio clips, you correct for drift before you start editing. That's as simple as using a slight time compression/expansion to make the end points meet.

But as for noticeable drift... again, you are going to see it over longer takes, typically over 10 minutes. The longer the take, the more the drift by the time you reach the end. This is just a fact of life in a non-sync, double-system audio world. There's not much you can do during the shoot to correct it... only to give yourself reliable reference marks with a clapper/slate. If you experience drift (i.e. if you have long takes), fix it when you prep for post and you'll be fine.

Zoom recorders have some of the worst drift. Tascam's is not as bad. As Scott suggested, with whichever recorder you get, do some tests to see what you're going to be working with.
 
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I've sold my H4n, and I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the dr-680. To those of you that have one (I'm looking at you @Chadfish), I have two things I want feedback / recommendations on:

(1) **BATTERY** It seems like one issue with the Tascam (same with h4n) is the way it eats through AA batteries. And I'm looking at the Tekkeon MP3450 as a solution Does anyone have experience with this battery or any other alternative battery source?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...P3450_MP3450_myPower_ALL_Universal.html/mode/


(2) **BAG** I want to use this in a bag with a solution to also be able to carry (eventually) a four (or even six) channel mixer. There two bags explicitly designed for the recorder:

(a) The portabrace: $160--ouch!!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...DR680_AR_DR680_Audio_Recorder_Case.html/mode/

(b) Case from Tascam(?)--looks like it fits like a glove, but then no room for anything else?!?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/690410-REG/Tascam_CS_DR680_CS_DR680_Carrying_Case_for.html/mode/

Suggestions? Thanks for this great forum btw!
 
For $160, the Portabrace is very economical in terms of bags. It doesn't have that much room though, you could 'maybe' have room for a wireless or two and an external battery. An 'RM-Multi' could be added on but even with that, no way are you going to fit a mixer in there too.
 
For sure the onboard power on the 680 is marginal. Seems like the Tekkeon would be viable and less expensive than an NP-1 type system. The power rating is in the range of an NP-1, but I'd be curious how well this unit actually performs. The devil is in the details and getting a secure cable solution would be critical. It looks like the power out plug is one of the little computer style plugs, so some strain relief might be needed. And the 680 has a funky wall wart input plug, so all the way round this is workable, but will require some kludgy fix for security. This is my only real complaint with the 680 and I am in need of external power as well. I haven't really felt like doing the whole NP-1 and BDS power system. I think I'll give the taken a try considering I don't need it often.

If you are considering a true audio bag which will handle the 680 + mixer, get ready to pay since they are a true specialty product. Consider a Petrol bag and the medium size is about right for a mixer+680+ cables + power + wireless. If you are really using it as a mixer bag, consider a harness also. There are a few harnesses in the bag accessory section. Link:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/686614-REG/Petrol_PS602_PS602_Deca_Eargonizer_Bag.html

Grant
 
That's helpful. Yeah, I guess I shouldn't expect to pay little for a nice audio bag (duh!). I'm looking at this Kata bag: Kata SunDo-1: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/202780-STUD/Kata_KT_VD_130_1_SunDo_1_Audio_Operational_Case.html/mode/

Also, I found this video, which looks like something worth watching when entering the world of audio bags: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/audio/tips-solutions/anatomy-audio-bag

And this article: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/audio/tips-solutions/building-perfect-audio-bag

I swear I don't work for B&H! Oi-vey! :p
 
Can't comment on that model Kata, but I have had mixed feelings about different Kata products I have owned. I really like the clip on pockets for wireless that the Petrol uses, though YMMV, and that may not matter to you at this point. Portabrace has the best shoulder straps by a mile, though a harness is the only way to go for serious work, they are soooo comfortable for carrying the load all day. I use this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...HS1N_Professional_Audio_Harness.html/mode/edu

Grant
 
I've got the 680 powered by a Tekkeon battery and love it. It's in a Petrol bag (w/ harness) with 2 lavs, headphones, cables, and 2 Rode pin mics. The Tekkeon usually lasts a full day, though you'll want to have a backup or the extension battery for long shoots. I don't think you can do better than this setup without spending quite a bit more.
 
@stefancolson Good to hear. I assume you don't have problems with fiddely connections between the two? Also, what bag are you using, and does it have room for a mixer? Thanks.
 
timecode on dr-680

timecode on dr-680

I just ordered the DR-680 as well from b&h (it came with a free bag from Tascam). I've been reading about sending timecode to one of the audio tracks and using the software "wavetobwf" to make a poly audio file with timecode. Has anyone tried this??

The link to the software is here:
http://www.videotoolshed.com/product/64/wavetobwf
 
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qwerty - The tekkeon has a 3 pin (almost din like, similar to old external hard drive enclosures power) connector that has a multitude of tips that can be put on it and has no issues at all. The tip is 90 degrees and the tascam has a a wire secureable connector on it so it can't fall out. Generally speaking, on our longest day we've shot over 12 hours with the devices left on and the battery still had about 1/5th left. There's very little room for a mixer once you add that battery, i suppose if you arranged things right, like putting the battery flat on the bottom and removing the Velcro baffles to do so, you might be able to fit the mixer; however you would need to split the power coming off the tekkeon and hope that the voltages for the recorder and mixer are the same because the tekkeon has adjuctable power, but there's only one port, hence the need to split the cable... aside from the mixer maybe using batteries internally.

On a side note, the tekkeon does have USB power coming off it, I suspect about 1 amp, but don't try to use that for anything other than charging a phone. I tried to power my comteks off it, and it was very very dirty. This doesn't surprise.

I work with Stefan, so I can chime in.
 
The drift is not just from the audio recorder, video cameras also drift. So even if the Tascam was 100% locked and stable you would have drift issues. The ONLY way not to, as has been mentioned, is to have the cameras and audio recorders locked together. You are not going to be able to do that on mid range equipment.

You can't "resync" while shooting since there is no reference they all see that they could sync to. Unless the devices are connected you are shooting wild and syncing in post. If you stop and start everyone at the same time the new "take" will start to drift from that point so maybe that is what you are talking about. But it's not resyncing.

How much of a problem the sync is depends on how close the devices clock speeds are to each other. They are going to be VERY close but if both run slow your drift will be less than if one is a hair fast and the other is a hair slow. With out taking the specific devices in and having them tested there is no way to tell if your camera and your recorder run at the same speed. You can run this test in a rough way by just setting them up pointing at a reference and recording for an hour. But the drift we are talking about is influenced by small differences in crystal frequency and temperature and a ton of other little things so it will always be a moving target if you are not locking your recorders to a master reference.

Short story is you are asking a question that can not be answered.
 
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