Tascam DR-40 for dialogue

TJBlack2

TJBlack2

Member
Hey guys,

I have an inquiry regarding DSLR film sound. Have any of you used the Tascam DR-40 for dialogue scenes? I'm just now figuring out how to use it. I have a deadcat for it and have it set to 24bit. I have a rode videomic pro to use in conjunction with it (with an XLR to 1/4 inch in adapter I guess?) All I know is that I want very subtle crisp dialogue. I would like to stay away from using lavs because they are omnidirectional and a hassel and I want crisp high ends. Is the DR-40 capable of capturing good dialogue with a rode videomic pro (on a boom)?
 
TJBlack2 said:
All I know is that I want very subtle crisp dialogue. I would like to stay away from using lavs because they are omnidirectional and a hassel and I want crisp high ends. Is the DR-40 capable of capturing good dialogue with a rode videomic pro (on a boom)?
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There's a lot going on here. Ideally, you'd want a dedicated microphone on a boom running into the DR-40. Shotguns and hypercardioids depending on what the location calls for dialogue.

Hassles are part of life. If you're getting better results with lavs, why not run them?
 
Thank you for your response. Lavs are kind of expensive for a good wireless kit. If I were to go that route, I may just use a couple of zoom h1s or give my actor my iphone to plug a lav into. I just want an efficient method for a very tight schedule.

Has anyone ever tried using the tascam DR-40 with a boom mic AND the built in XY's at the same time? If so, I'd like to hear it. Even if you've tried with a zoom h4n or something. I'd like to hear the results of that configuration.
 
You probably don't want to go the iphone/lav route. The iphone is not going to give you a quality recording when compared to something like a dedicated wireless system running into a decent recorder. A good wireless system is expensive, and for a reason (clear audio without dropouts or feedback). If cost is an issue, consider renting items or paying a location sound person to aid you in your films.

I think you might be trying to get too much out of the DR-40. I don't know if it's possible to record the the internal mics and an external source (I took a quick look at the manual and it doesn't mention it) but you're not going to want to go that route. When using a boom, you'll want the recorder near you to adjust levels and monitor the recording, visually and with headphones. Additionally, the stereo mics on the DR-40 are going to give you a lot of room ambiance, which is nice on it's own to add to a mix, but when recording dialogue you want the clearest signal possible. Adding a bunch of ambient room tone to the same tracks you're recording dialogue to will wash out the sound and when you eventually turn up the files in post, that room noise will be raised along with the dialogue levels.

I think at this point you should go one of a few routes: reading up on location recording so that you can best utilize your tools to achieve the best sound possible or hiring/wrangling a friend/finding someone who is knowledgeable in the field to aid you on your production or guide you in your own studies.
 
Thank you so much for this information. I Just learned a some good things from your post. I really should look into renting. I'm always worried about the cost of doing it, but to be honest I haven't really shopped around for many prices. You made a good point by laying out possible dilemmas which occur during the mixing process... Even more things to consider. I just started using FCPX and am still getting use of the audio features.

Thanks for the heads up. What kind of mics do you like to use?
 
TJBlack2 said:
Has anyone ever tried using the tascam DR-40 with a boom mic AND the built in XY's at the same time?
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4CH Mode does this. It produces two files, one from the internal mics and one from the external source. See pages 52, 57, 58 of the manual.
 
I generally use a Rode NTG-2 shotgun in a Rode blimp for exterior work and an AKG 300b w/CK93 hypercardioid head for interior stuff. And for audio, this might be a step-up, but try and use a dedicated audio program for editing the audio. FCP is pretty limited in this area. Better yet spend the dough and have someone do your post-production audio for you. Renting gear/engineers is going to yield better results than going in and just buying gear at this point. But you come across as wanting to learn more about audio, and having a sound guy around to explain things and practicing with your setup can really push your further toward your goal. Like I said previously, a decent microphone on a boom plugged into the DR-40 that the operator is controlling is going to yield better results. The DR-40 is a completely usable recorder. Used NTG-2's can be found under $200 often. The Rode windscreens for them range from $40-70. A decent shockmount will run you around $70 (the Rode PG2 is a good combo shockmount/pistol grip for handheld use). This is a good, lightweight, inexpensive boompole to start with: http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-ft-Carbon...716?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33803ebe64 , or rent the pole/mic/shockmount/wind screen for your productions. The real key, though, is going to be educating yourself or having people around that understand location recording.

Inveresk: thanks, I don't own the DR-40 so I just quickly scrolled through the manual. With that being said, when booming the DR-40 should be on or near the operator so that they can control and monitor the levels, which would make recording both sources at once while booming fairly useless. It does make sense if you're doing field recordings or somehow have a M/S setup rigged up.
 
Hi, I have no experience wtih DR-40 but I have DR-100mkII that gives pretty good results. It cost me $288 compared to what appears to be $144 for the DR-40
 
TJBlack2 said:
Has anyone ever tried using the tascam DR-40 with a boom mic AND the built in XY's at the same time? If so, I'd like to hear it. Even if you've tried with a zoom h4n or something. I'd like to hear the results of that configuration.
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I think you might want to take some time and read through the yellow stickies at the top of the sound forum. Start with Audio 101, which has links to all sorts of good information. You might also want to go ahead and get a copy of the "Sound for Film and Television" tutorial video (also in a sticky) before you go much further.

While the DR-40 is a fantastic little recorder (I keep one in my kit), and can yield great results, knowing how to configure it is essential. Yes, the recorder can be set to record both the external inputs and the internal mics simultaneously as separate stereo pairs, but your first and foremost priority in production is to get clean, clear dialog. This means that you want to eliminate background sounds. Plus, and "ambient" sound you record alongside dialog is pretty much useless in post as it will only serve to muddy the dialog. Dialog recording is much more about the mic choice and mic placement than the recorder.

I'm not sure the VideoMic Pro was the best choice to go with the DR-40, either. The recorder offers balanced XLR inputs, and you have to take a mic with an unbalanced signal which, without getting too technical, is more susceptible to noise and interference over longer cable runs, and adapt it to the XLR input. Don't get me wrong... I actually love the VideoMic Pro for what it is, and I have one on my DSLR whenever I shoot, but there are much better options to go with the DR-40 for boomed use.

Before you invest in any more gear, or even try to work with what you have, a lot of the questions you have, have been answered many times before... and likely are answered in the stickies.
 
I have a DR 40. I use it for gathering sounds. It's great. I use it to record the boom mic, and other mics, that I mix in a production mixer. Then I go balanced line out to the DR-40 and that works great.
 
TJBlack2 said:
Have any of you used the Tascam DR-40 for dialogue scenes?
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Yes, I shot an Indie short 3 weeks ago with two female characters drinking wine while they discussing the trials of their personal lives.

I was on camera, but I set-up the boom op with my Tascam DR-40 running an AT4053b mic on a Rycote Lyre pistol-grip at the end of an 8 foot boom.

Sound was absolutely great. Clear, clean, crisp, with nice overall tone. I attribute this to this recorder + mic combo. The DR-40 like all low cost recorders, has weak pre-amps, so you need a mic with strong output to achieve good sound.

TJBlack2 said:
All I know is that I want very subtle crisp dialogue.
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You really need a better mic if you want better sound. The Rode Video Mic Pro is a great mic when shooting outdoors or in large spaces, but it's a low cost shotgun mic, and will pick up audio reflections from smaller rooms.

Depending on your budget, I would look at finding a good cardioid mic ( used AT3031 mics can be found for $100 ) or hyper-cardioid ( AT4053b is a solid investment ), or if you want one mic to do everything because of budget constraints, I really like the new Sennheiser MKE600 shotgun that works well both indoors and outside. ( see my quick'n'dirty mic test to get some idea of how these mics compare )
 
So much great info on this thread. Thank you everyone for posting. I will definitely look into getting a decent XLR shotgun mic, even though I have a boom pole for me Rode VMP. I will check out cardioid mics and the sennheiser shotguns.

I know a little bit about sound, I produce music on the side to (Just about everybody does these days), so I think I could navigate through FCPX audio tools ok. They seem to have some good features like limiter, high pass, compressor, and several EQs to choose from.
 
TJBlack2 said:
I know a little bit about sound, I produce music on the side to (Just about everybody does these days), so I think I could navigate through FCPX audio tools ok. They seem to have some good features like limiter, high pass, compressor, and several EQs to choose from.
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For audio, I was directed to this programme through dvxuser. It's a pretty able audio editor, is open source and so free of charge.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/
 
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