TA5F connector LAVs

T

treynolds

Well-known member
So I have two old Lav's that I inherited from an old merger. One is a Tram TR50 and the other looks to me like a Sony. Problem is these mic's use a TA5F connector and my wireless lav kit (Senheizer evolution) uses a locking 3.5mm barrel. Ideally need to find a wiring diagram to either make adapters for these mics to go into my wireless body packs or a ready made adapter. My problem however is that these mic's use phantom power (12v or 48v) so any adapter will have to have a power supply in line. I could also wire these to just standard XLR to use with my mixer wired but that is not ideally since I already need new mics to go with my wireless kit. Any advice?

There is a tr79 adapter/power supply that will run them to XLR but then I have to have a second adapter to go from XLR to 3.5mm. I would rather not have to use two adapters. Plus this adapter costs about $170 and I would need two of them.
 
Unlikely that the LAV mic's you have use phantom power directly as you usually need a converter to drop the 12-48v down to what the LAV needs which is around 1.5-5v.

The good news is that most of the radio mic systems provide the correct power directly so all you need to do is change the TA connector to a locking 3.5mm jack to fit the sennheiser system or get a TA adaptor to 3.5mm locking jack but re-soldering a new 3.5mm jack onto the tram and the sony will be a far cheaper option and be a more robust solution.
 
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Similar to you I had got a couple of Sanken COS-11D lavs with TA5F connectors. I had a cable made to convert from TA5F to the locking stereo mini plug for the Sennheiser Evolution series made when I use these units (no power conversion necessary). Cost was under 25 bucks and the cable was professionally made. I also got some converters to go from the TA5F to 3 pin XLR which converted the 48 volt phantom power down to the right voltage for the lavs which I believe was around 5 volts. I used a company that specializes in servicing location sound professionals. It was Pro Sound out of NYC, pro-sound.com. On the west coast Location Sound is a well known vendor. I have had good experience with them as well. DVeStore is also excellent for lavs and sound gear. I would check them out as well. Their pricing is excellent.
 
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The TA5>3.5mm adapters from Amazon would work, but reliability would be an issue with the additional stress on the connectors.
You could put the G2/3 3.5mm locking plug on the mics and wire a (inline cable end) female 3.5mm to your existing XLR Phantom Pwr adapter. Otherwise you'll have to purchase XLR Phantom Pwr adapters with a 3.5mm jack @ $100.USD each.. minimum.
If you have experience working with and soldering small electronics, Markertek.com has good quality affordable inline 3.5mm locking plugs and jacks. If you can't, they also have a custom cable shop, as do most of the usual suspect location sound audio shops.
http://www.markertek.com/Connectors...TecNec/M-3-5S-LOCKING.xhtml?M-3.5S LOCKING&bs
http://www.markertek.com/Connectors...-5mm-Adapters/Calrad-Electronics/30-297.xhtml
 
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Wow, i guess the audio gear section of this forum is still thriving. Good to know!

Thanks for all the responses guys. I was poking around Marketek yesterday and i am no stranger to small soldering for making cables. Does anybody know the wiring for the ta5f connector? I would need to make a balanced to unbalanced adapter if i were to rewire these.

I am glad to learn that these need a lot less power than I originally assumed. I was a little amazed that a 9v battery in the body pack on my old lectrosonics (which used to run these mics) could truly get up to 48v. So if i really wanted to i could wire these with a coupe of 3v batteries in line to get me in the voltage range i need. Then i could run these directly into my Zoom h1, direct to DSLR's, or hell even into my phone to record there.

the world of opportunity has opened up to me now.

Thanks again guys!
 
Tram wiring varies, depending on the age and configuration of the mic. For instance, there are two and three wire versions as well as positive and negative bias versions. See the Tram website (or whomever manufactures them at this point). Lectro has Tram wiring diagrams as well for the TA5 plug receiver types.
When wired correctly (3.5mm plug) most lavs will work splendidly with a recorder's (camera or transmitter) 'plug-in power' (technically bias current, usually 2.5 to 5 volts) so external batteries should not be needed in those instances.
Do not.. I repeat, DO NOT attempt to power it with raw Phantom Pwr.
 
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In case anybody else finds this thread and wants it here is what i found form Lectro
http://www.lectrosonics.com/Microphone-Wiring/uhf-transmitter-5-pin-input-jack-wiring.html
Looks like various different wiring diagrams there.

Now the challenge is figuring out which I have. Neither of the 2 mic's have any real identification on them. I only know the one is a Tram from experience and the other a sony. Beyond that i am at a loss. The tram has 73970 on the bad on the mic itself. The sony (or i believe it's a sony i guess) has no marking whatsoever.

I have uploaded some pictures in the hopes that somebody can help me ID these mics.
photo 4.jpgphoto 3.jpgphoto 2.jpgphoto 1.jpg
 
On the back of Tram's head there would be a + mark stamp for positive bias. It's usually faint, so magnification may be warranted.
 
looked with a loupe and the back side of the Tram doesn't seem to have any + stamp. So I am assuming it is a negative bias.
 
treynolds said:
OK well i may have answered my question

I just found this
http://www.amazon.com/Lectrosonics-Tie-clip-SENNHEISER-YPA-MA507/dp/B009HN0U9M
anybody know if this will send the voltage needed? Its exactly what i need seeing as i have Sennheiser EW300's
Click to expand...

If the sex is right on the TA5 adapter that should work just fine. Your Sennheiser transmitter will supply phantom voltage to the lavs if they don't require more than 3v. The standard Sennheiser ME2 lav packaged with these systems is phantom powered.
 
Razz16mm said:
If the sex is right on the TA5 adapter that should work just fine. Your Sennheiser transmitter will supply phantom voltage to the lavs if they don't require more than 3v. The standard Sennheiser ME2 lav packaged with these systems is phantom powered.
Click to expand...

Note phantom power is a totally different system than that used on radio mics to power LAV mics which need a lot lower voltage to work.

Phantom power is a balanced system running at 12-52 volts and is common to XLR and TRS jacks where the power is run in phase and out of phase over the two legs so that if you plug in a dynamic mic it cancels out.

The powering system that LAV mic's use direct is normally unbalanced and runs at 1.5-5v via a two conductor system, it is commonly called plug-in power and is not interchangeable with phantom power unless you are using a special adaptor to drop the voltage and unbalance the phantom power source to the mic head.

LAV mic heads either have a twin cable where the plug in power is fed as part of the signal or a three conductor where the extra cable is used to feed the power source.

The ME2 is NOT a phantom power mic and uses the plug in power that is provided from sennheiser radio mic packs across two pins of the 3.5mm locking jack, other LAV mics can also be powered this way but to use any LAV with phantom power sources you will need an adaptor to drop the voltage and to interface the LAV with the balanced powering system.

Some LAV mics such as the sony ECM-50/55 and 77 can be used direct with phantom power but include a large battery holder to do the phantom power conversion or enable battery use only.

If you plug an ME2 or other LAV mic such as the Tram directly to a full 12-52v phantom power source you will probably damage the mic head!
 
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FYI, on most XLR connector lavaliere mics, the XLR module is a transformer that converts Phantom Power to bias current. Some have a battery option, usually a AA or 'watch type' button cell.
None of the 100 series G2/3 transmitters supply Phantom Power.. period. The 2000 series plug-on transmitter does, however it's considerably more expensive and not recommended for lav use.
 
Thanks for the video.

I also have a couple of ECM-50's that run on AA batteries. So these, if they are running off of mic power at 1.5v i could easily get that from the body packs. I guess its time to order some locking 3.5mm plugs.
 
I have a half dozen Trams (and ost801s) that run fine on Lectro and Sennheiser bodypack x-mitters and the XLR Phantom Pwr. adapters for hard-wired usage.
 
So i decided, since I have no devices that use the the TA5f connector to just replace them with 3.5mm and leave them dedicated with my Sennheiser setup. I opened op the TA5f to find that the sheild and the red are both in pin 3, the black is in pin 2 and pin 1 and 4 are jumpered together. I cross referenced this with the wiring i found on the lectro page ( here ) but couldn't find any set up that matched this.

Any ideas how i should be wiring this to a mono 3.5mm jack? Or do i need to use a stereo jack?
 
ok well i decided to wing it and didn't get any leaking magic blue smoke so we are good.

For anybody else who is looking, i wired black and sheild to the ring and red to the tip. Works nicely.
 
Just chop the TA5 connectors off and put on locking stereo mini connectors. The service department where I used to work would do this all the time.
 
An update for anyone using a TRAM TR50 or Countryman EMW lavalier mic with one of the new Sony UTX-B03 units.

I used the pinouts/wiring diagram from Countryman:

Tip = B
Ring = R
Sleeve = S
15k resistor Tip to Sleeve


TRAM TR50 pinouts.jpg

Works like a charm.

For other transmitters, here's the full list from Countryman:

http://www.countryman.com/microphone-wiring

Ben.
 
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