Switch from FS700 to A7S?

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dmitrizigany

Veteran
Hey!

Since the A7S was announced I have been very interested in the camera. First I wanted it as a b cam for my FS700. Now it seems I can't quite swing that. I could maybe but at the cost of things I need for the FS700.

Lately I've started toying with the idea of selling my FS700 and switch to the A7S altogether.

The main reasons would be cost. Everything about the FS700 is much more expensive.

Here's the pros and cons as I see it:

FS700
+ Professional looking (for clients concerned with that)
+ Dedicated buttons for functions
+ ND filters (although I usually film in dark places)
+ Odyssey 7Q raw/4KtoHD
+ High frame rates at full resolution
+ Good built-in audio
+ World Cam
+ Battery life w/ NP970

- Cost of accessories
- Size
- Weak internal codec
- Cost of upgrade (O7Q)
- Need for expensive Speedbooster

A7S
+ Small and portable
+ Strong internal codec
+ Cheaper 4K solution
+ Picture quality/dynamic range?
+ Cheaper accessories
+ Can use cheaper adapter and still get full frame.
+ Stellar still pictures
+ Better low light capabilities

- Body not designed for video
- Can only record 30 minutes
- Less video centred/dedicated buttons
- Rather expensive audio add-on
- Not world cam (unless ordering from Hong Kong)
- No ND filters (not huge issue as I mostly lack light)

Anyone have pros and cons to add?

If I could see myself being able to afford an Odyssey 7Q in the near future, the FS700 would have been an easy choice. But I can't really see that happening very soon.
If I sell my FS700R I could get the A7S and some great lenses and other accessories I need. And that's the main thing. Everything for a bigger camera like the FS700 is more expensive: sliders, glidecams, tripods, bags etc etc. And I'm struggling for survival as it is.

Whats your opinion? Would selling the FS700 to go with an A7S be a mistake?
 
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If you decide to go 4k with the A7s how much are really saving? It's a different story if you're deciding what camera to buy but if you already own the fs700 you would just be downgrading plus take a hit on the A7s The second it comes out the box. Preserve your dollars, stick with the fs700. Even in a year from now your fs700 may still be worth close to $5000. The A7s/blade combo will be considerably less than that. I bet a year from now $5000 will get you a lot more than it will get you right now. Keep the fs700, Just my 2cents, thanks
 
Sony a7s 30sec rolling shutter... 720p slow motion.. the sensor in the a7s is amazing but for me the fs700 is far superior overall. If you got already the fs700 keep it and buy the 7q.
 
Funny to see this thread because just 15 minutes ago, I called sony and got approved to return my a7s (barely made it within the return time frame). Reason I'm returning the A7s is to get a fs700. The A7s is a great camera but I like the 240fps :)
 
strancali said:
Funny to see this thread because just 15 minutes ago, I called sony and got approved to return my a7s (barely made it within the return time frame). Reason I'm returning the A7s is to get a fs700. The A7s is a great camera but I like the 240fps :)
Click to expand...
Hehe, that is rather funny, indeed.
After 6 months I have hardly used the 240fps so that becomes less and less of a selling point to me. It's nice to know it's there though.
 
Marino215 said:
If you decide to go 4k with the A7s how much are really saving?
Click to expand...
Have no real plans to go 4K anytime soon. But when/if I do then the Atomos Shogun will be a lot more achievable as it's half the price of the 7Q (once you add price for codec and expensive proprietary media etc).
 
The HolyManta VND emount to EF adapter will let you put EF lenses on the A7S, whilst also having a rear mounted variable ND, that can also flip out of the way.
 
atarijedi said:
The HolyManta VND emount to EF adapter will let you put EF lenses on the A7S, whilst also having a rear mounted variable ND, that can also flip out of the way.
Click to expand...
Be aware though, this is at the cost of being able to
control the iris on the EF mount lens. You are then
only able to control exposure by applying more ND.
 
Personally I'm sticking with the FS700. First, I am
not a FF shooter, so I don't need a speed booster.
I'm used to S35 'crop factor'. 2nd Sony almost always
reuses and repurposes their sensors. NEX 5N sensor
in the VG20/30, F3 sensor in FS100, F5 sensor in FS700?
It makes me believe there will be more for this A7s sensor
(hopefully in a video cam body with built in ND and internal
4k). Why buy a still camera version now only to have to go
back and buy the video version later? I'm not a still shooter
so the stills are not a big draw for me. Lastly this so called
'weak' FS700 codec seems fine to me. I used it to bill over
10 grand last month and people love how it looks. Sure, it
could be a higher bit rate, things can always be better.
But in many (most for me) cases the internal codec does the
job and makes clients happy. Of course I would like
to get even better gear, I'm a tech geek. But the A7s
seems to be a bit of 'one step forward, two steps back'
for me. I'll wait for its 'video camera cousin' and see if
it emerges.
 
alaskacameradude said:
But the A7s seems to be a bit of 'one step forward, two steps back' for me.
Click to expand...
This is a bit what I'm most afraid of. Not having the controls of a proper video body.
But there's so much I cannot do now because all the extras for a FS700 cost so much, so I can't even get a rig/slider/steadything/etc cause they all are so expensive. So right now I feel very limited with what I can do especially when it comes to camera movement. I also find myself filming in small spaces a lot, so a (€600) speedbooster is becoming a must buy item to get the wider shots while retaining some shallow depth of field.

Getting the FS700 a bit closer to were I want it would be almost €2000. While if I sold the FS700 and got the A7S, I would have all without spending any money and could start earning money instead.
 
alaskacameradude said:
Personally I'm sticking with the FS700. First, I am
not a FF shooter, so I don't need a speed booster.
I'm used to S35 'crop factor'. 2nd Sony almost always
reuses and repurposes their sensors. NEX 5N sensor
in the VG20/30, F3 sensor in FS100, F5 sensor in FS700?
It makes me believe there will be more for this A7s sensor
(hopefully in a video cam body with built in ND and internal
4k). Why buy a still camera version now only to have to go
back and buy the video version later? I'm not a still shooter
so the stills are not a big draw for me. Lastly this so called
'weak' FS700 codec seems fine to me. I used it to bill over
10 grand last month and people love how it looks. Sure, it
could be a higher bit rate, things can always be better.
But in many (most for me) cases the internal codec does the
job and makes clients happy. Of course I would like
to get even better gear, I'm a tech geek. But the A7s
seems to be a bit of 'one step forward, two steps back'
for me. I'll wait for its 'video camera cousin' and see if
it emerges.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Exactly what I'm thinking.
 
dmitrizigany said:
This is a bit what I'm most afraid of. Not having the controls of a proper video body.
But there's so much I cannot do now because all the extras for a FS700 cost so much, so I can't even get a rig/slider/steadything/etc cause they all are so expensive. So right now I feel very limited with what I can do especially when it comes to camera movement. I also find myself filming in small spaces a lot, so a (€600) speedbooster is becoming a must buy item to get the wider shots while retaining some shallow depth of field.

Getting the FS700 a bit closer to were I want it would be almost €2000. While if I sold the FS700 and got the A7S, I would have all without spending any money and could start earning money instead.
Click to expand...

First, I hope you don't take it as me trying to tell you what to do! Everyone has different needs, markets, clients, and
some people aren't even doing this (digital motion pictures) as a business at all but more as an 'artistic hobby'. So my
views, are mine alone and may make zero sense for you!

For me, I do kind of know what you are talking about. The FS700 is kind of big and 'serious', which makes it harder
to put on sliders, cranes, and such. I've got two sliders. One of them is a portable slider, the Cinevate Duzi. You can
actually throw it in a suitcase filled with clothes. I did just that last month as I had 3 separate shoots where I had to
travel by air, stay in hotels and rent cars. I hate to check any of my gear as the airlines have broke so much of it, and
they will never pay for it. So I have a backpack full of lenses and my camera, and carry on that and my tripod.
My Duzi is small enough to fit in a hard suitcase wrapped in clothes. The FS700 will actually work on the Duzi as
it is rated up to 75 pounds. My second slider is motorized and longer. If it is center mounted on a tripod,
it can take the weight of the FS700 no problem, but the tripod can't. When the FS700 gets out to the end, it
'sags'. So for that slider, I use my VG20, because it is small and light. It IS good to have a 'small and light'
camera to mount on sliders, cranes, car mounts, and such. But personally, I wouldn't want to give up the
advantages of the FS700 to get the advantages of the A7s. That being said, there is a lot to be said for having
a 'B' camera that is smaller, lighter, and useful at those types of things. It would be easier to use on a
motorized 3 axis gimble too......easier on your arms as it would be lighter! So I understand what you are saying.

But don't get into the trap of thinking 'if only I had an A7s, I could be making money, instead of spending it'.
I have had the FS700 for quite awhile. I have a $150 tripod, a semi DIY motorized slider, and the Cinevate Duzi.
No rig, no gimble, no Odyssey 7Q, no external monitor. I have a metabones adapter, no speedbooster.
I pretty much shoot with the FS700 stock (except for shortening the loupe). And it works just great for me.
Every job I've done with it so far has received just gushing praise from the clients. And I really don't think
I'm all that good, average at best as a cinematographer. It's more the fact that I can get a lot of different looks
in a client's video. Need shallow depth of field for an interview? Use the 50 1.4 FD prime. Need extreme
wide angle? Use the Sigma 10-20. Need some nice detail shots? Use the Sigma 50-150. Need some 'normal
FOV' shots? Use the Sigma 18-35. Walking around without looking 'handheld/jittery'? Use the kit lens with OSS.
Want some 'smeary' timelapse stuff with slow shutter? FS700 can do that. And lets not forget the awesome slow motion!
For a one man video company, it just covers a ton of bases. In other words, you don't NEED rigs, gimble's or
steadycam's to make money. I use FS700, a $150 tripod and a $399 slider. I will be upgrading to the Miller 'Air'
tripod soon (I've had a couple of REALLY good months businesswise) but use what you have, and when you do need to
buy, buy good basic gear that isn't horribly expensive, like the Duzi. If you've got anything like a NEX5 or GH3
or similar, you can use it as your B camera for sliders and such. Another option would be to buy the BlackMagic
pocket cam for $495 for a B cam. I just know for me, I have this feeling that I'm going to really want what I
anticipate will be the 'video' version of the A7s. So I'd rather hang on to that $2500 for now. I can always buy the
A7s later if need be. No need to be the 'first' to buy it as I don't see how it will make me any more money.
But of course, your milage may vary!
 
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The FS700 is an awesome camera, with or without the O7Q, for many reasons. I think it would be crazy to sell it for an A7s, but maybe that's better for you, idk?
 
I think you are trying to convince yourself that you don't need the FS700. Get the A7S and have a play. Get a 3 axis gimbal while at it. Cameras come and go. I'm sure you can make 10 grand a month with a A7S as with a stock FS700 if you know what you are doing. Life is short. Go with what you feel because in the end plus and minus charts never really are reliable.
 
goodgoings said:
I think you are trying to convince yourself that you don't need the FS700. Get the A7S and have a play. Get a 3 axis gimbal while at it. Cameras come and go. I'm sure you can make 10 grand a month with a A7S as with a stock FS700 if you know what you are doing. Life is short. Go with what you feel because in the end plus and minus charts never really are reliable.
Click to expand...

Just for the record, that was an unusual and good month for me. And I wouldn't know what
I was doing with an A7s....still cameras confuse me, as oddly enough, they are set up for stills.
Dots in my screen for autofocus? Shutter priority? Sepia tone filter? Get me out of here!
However lots of you guys are much smarter than I, and have figured out how to shoot
great looking stuff on still cams. If the OP is one of those types, maybe the A7s is
the cam for him after all.
 
It's actually quite a difficult decision with a stock FS700 vs A7s.

If you could ever afford the O7Q then there would be no contest, the RAW image out of the 700 is much better than the A7s. But if that's never going to be a plan of yours then it is a difficult decision.

Having both i would say it largely depends what sort of work you do.

The rolling shutting in the A7s may be a deal breaker, if you like long lenses then it will cause problems.
The lack of exposure monitoring is a work flow pain
There are more highlight artefacts too
I don't know how good onboard sound it (the 700 is pretty good)
The 4K route is unknown at the moment

But the small form factor could be a strong draw, in that gimbals and rigging is so much easier. It so easy to carry around, but you would need some kind of weight to it if you're going to handhold, otherwise it's jello-vision. The full frame look is very distinct and very nice - i can see this being the route that sony start pushing across all of their cameras.

Obviously the super slo mo would be lost, but how often does anyone really, really use that.

The XAVC is better than the AVCHD for sure.

It's a lovely camera but it's not at the ergonomic level of the 700 (and who thought anyone would praise the ergonomics of the 700!)

cheers
Paul
 
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