Super small recorders and in-line phanom power?

Chadfish said:
There are some nice things in the 500-600.00 range. But back to the M10, it looks nice. I haven't used it. I have the D-50 and it is soooooo sweet. The M-10 has the same quality, but less features.[/url]
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Since both of these recorders have only one mini stereo jack input, what would be a good pick for a quiet external mic? I picked up an ATR-6250 stereo condenser mic to stick on my 60D. Before anyone jumps all over a mic on a camera, I just needed something to replace the in camera mic for walk around shooting.

M-10/
Inputs 1 x 3.5mm Mic Input
1 x 3.5mm Line Input
3 x Built-In Condenser Microphones
1 x 3.5mm Remote Input

D-50/
1 x 3.5mm Stereo Mini Mic Input
1 x Line Input (OPT)
1 x Optical Digital Input (OPT)
 
I've used both quite a lot, also:
M-10 is significantly smaller, the build quality isn't as good (but probably better than everything else in that price range), has 2 x omnidirectional mics bulit in (a little bit quieter, less defined stereo image) and uses microSD flash as well as Memory Stick. Batteries last a long time (up to 30hrs)

D-50 has a better preamp and cardioid mics (better stereo image, proximity effect, a bit more self-noise).

Both supply 3V plug-in power on the mic input which will power a number of lavalier mics

I'd say the internal mics on both of these are better than the ATR6250, although it's more directional so could be useful.
 
I don't know what to suggest ROCKMORE. If you want something to sit on top of your camera and record while you casually shoot maybe the Zoom H1 would be better. You can either record to the H1 and sync in post, or pass through and go into the camera. One thing for sure, a mic going straight into the 60D will result in audio with lots of hiss.
 
Chadfish said:
I don't know what to suggest ROCKMORE. If you want something to sit on top of your camera and record while you casually shoot maybe the Zoom H1 would be better. You can either record to the H1 and sync in post, or pass through and go into the camera. One thing for sure, a mic going straight into the 60D will result in audio with lots of hiss.
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They also had a good price on the Rode NTG-3 at about USD $631 which from all I seen is the shotgun to beat for the quality and value. I did see 2 different NTG-3s on the B&H site maybe you can clear up the difference between them. They are both the same price.

Rode



NTG-3 Precision RF-Biased Shotgun Microphone





Rode


NTG-3 RF-Biased Condenser Shotgun Microphone



But back to my original question / What mic would work correctly plugged into one of those Sony digital recorders with only a single mini stereo input?
 
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Chadfish said:
One thing for sure, a mic going straight into the 60D will result in audio with lots of hiss.
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Well I did a series of tests and the ATR-6250 and it's a big improvement over the in camera mic, which makes it a better home video camera with a little added white noise from the 60D. I'll leave it at that.

A decent field recorder is the next on the list. Since the Sony seems to only have mini in does the take it out of the equation for an NTG-3 or AT-875R with XLRs?
 
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I just bought an h1 for the same reason as your looking to do, and im super impressed with the quality. It has a deep rich sound thats really nice. I first tried running my beachtek with it, thinking I would get better audio going from mic-beachtek-h1. But that wasn't the case. The audio was much better eliminating the beachtek, and running the xlr mic to an xlr-3.5mm adapter, then to the h1. Or even better, was the h1 all by it's self. But that won't work in many situations and you will need the shotgun. But yeah the h1 is great. Oh, and I picked up the h1 at bestbuy for 89.00 bucks.
 
Rockmore.

Yes the AT875r and the NTG3 both require phantom power. if a recorder doesn't provide it then you cannot use these mics unless you go thru a mixer or preamp of some sort that can provide the phantom power.
 
I like the form factor of the PCM-M10. From my very green perspective, I also find it to be very quiet and pleasant sounding, considerably better than the Zoom equipment. Comparisons I have heard online also sounded better than any of the Tascams in a similar price range.
 
Kit Hannah said:
What I was really envisioning is something with a AA battery in line or something, kind of the same way that many condensers and shotguns get their power.
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As a rule of thumb, any mic that is powered from a AA battery or two is probably an electret condenser mic, as opposed to a "real" condenser mic. There have been gains over the years in electret condenser microphone technology, but all things being equal a true condenser mic will usually sound better. It sounds like you are more interested in portability than absolute sound quality here, so perhaps an electret condenser with smaller batteries would be the way to go in your case. Just food for thought.
 
johnnyevil said:
I like the form factor of the PCM-M10. From my very green perspective, I also find it to be very quiet and pleasant sounding, considerably better than the Zoom equipment. Comparisons I have heard online also sounded better than any of the Tascams in a similar price range.
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What kind of mic are you running into the PCM-M10, and is it possible to input two wired lavs with no issues into the single mini mic in? I have 3 Sony Lavs ECM-55, 66, 77. Also what's the result if you run the PCM-M10 audio signal into your T2? I have a 60D.
 
Rockmore you need a mixer plain and somple. You get a JuicedLink because it is active and has actual gain. The Beachteck is a passive device that adds no gain so it's like plugging a mic in to the camera straight, only you have a knob to turn it down. A Sound Devices MixPre would be your best bet for something to feed the Sony M-10 or something similar. The MixPre can power any mic and it has very nice limiters on both the input and output. So when calibrated to your recorder/camera you have a virtually clip proof setup.

NTG-3 into MixPre, then with a 3.5mm cable go out of the MixPre's "TapeOut" and into the M-10's "Line-in". About 1,600.00 for all.

And as for AA battery mics: The NTG-2 is a true condenser mic that runs on AA battery.
 
I've run a pair of Countryman B3's straight into the PCM-M10 off plug in power, you'll have to check the specifications for minimum operating voltage for the Sony mics but they'll probably work
 
Grant the Beachteck does provide phantom, but those boxes are passive, and provide no gain. It's like plugging the mic in straight, and you can only turn it down. If one can't afford a MixPre I would then suggest a JuicedLink. JuicedLinks are active and will enable you to turn up the mic and get the signal further above the noisefloor. Also JuicedLinks can switch between mic and line output which is great. Going into a recorder at line level will be great for getting a noise free signal. IMO - Beachtek bad.
 
RichT said:
I've run a pair of Countryman B3's straight into the PCM-M10 off plug in power, you'll have to check the specifications for minimum operating voltage for the Sony mics but they'll probably work
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My Sony ECM 55 / 66 / 77 are all AA powered.
What kind of adapter do you use to run the 2 mics into the single stereo input and do they sound relatively noise free?

I agree with Chad, but I can only add one new piece of gear at a time and have to make do till I get more cash. I will start with a PCM-M10 and work with the internal mics to start, then see what the result will be with the Sony Lavs at no added expense.

Cnad Quote "Rockmore you need a mixer plain and simple.
NTG-3 into MixPre, then with a 3.5mm cable go out of the MixPre's "TapeOut" and into the M-10's "Line-in". About 1,600.00 for all."
 
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ROCKMORE said:
What kind of mic are you running into the PCM-M10, and is it possible to input two wired lavs with no issues into the single mini mic in? I have 3 Sony Lavs ECM-55, 66, 77. Also what's the result if you run the PCM-M10 audio signal into your T2? I have a 60D.
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Forgive the low budgetness of the video. It was the very first thing I really directed and planned out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnse7YlTb8c

T2i with Nikon 35mm F/2.5 Series E (Declicked by BH Photo)

NTG-3 in Rycote Windshield Kit
MixPre to PCM-M10

Cut in Final Cut Express

We shot this this afternoon and cut it right after.
 
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