Super small recorders and in-line phanom power?

Kit Hannah

Kit Hannah

Veteran
Hey all,
So I am trying to make up my mind on some things and am interested in getting my 5D setup down to an ultra small and light package. I don't need broadcast quality audio all the time, but I feel like if I am going to do it, I need to do it right (within reason). What I would like to do is replace my h4n recorder with something more compact, like a small Sony or something that is not as bulky. I know the h4n is not super bulky, but it's heavy enough and big enough as to not be compact enough for the setup I am looking for.

So, does anyone use a minerature recorder (mic plugged in via minijack) that gets very acceptable results? I don't necessarily care about the built in mic on the unit itself. Any recommendations?

On another note, does anyone know of a product that adds battery phantom power through some sort of small package? I've seen a few that have 2 xlrs, but I'm looking for one to go in-line with the mic and is very compact. It needs to be xlr>xlr or xlr>minijack. I think I saw a Schoeps version but it was like $800+, at that point I would just get a new mic that can be battery powered. Anyone know of anything inexpensive?

Thanks
Kit
 
By the time you add the phantom module and the necessary cabling you are probably back to same bulk as the H4n.
 
recordingwhiz said:
By the time you add the phantom module and the necessary cabling you are probably back to same bulk as the H4n.
Click to expand...

So you're saying they don't make an inline adapter with phantom power? And necessary cabling would be a short 1/8" cable. I'm fairly confident I can make the setup more compact than it is, it won't introduce extra cabling.
 
All the inline phantom battery adapters Ive seen use 2x 9v batteries, maybe there are more options but that isn't too small.
 
Thanks Dr. Dave. Might be compact enough. What I was really invisioning is something with a AA battery in line or something, kind of the same way that many condensers and shotguns get their power. I may just have to go for a new mic or 2 that has it built in. That's fine.

So I will just get down to small recorder recommendations. Anybody have a recorder that small and using it successfully?

Thanks
Kit
 
I have tried a bunch of these and it really depends on what you want. If you go digital in, like the m-audio, the sound is independent of the recorder.
The one I always reach for is the Fostex FR2LE, because the preamps and converters are good, and it has real Phantom power that will power my big Neumanns as well as my Schoeps, which will run on anything with the built DC converter. It isn't tiny, which is probably why it sounds good, and you need two mics to go with it. The Zoom H2 has very good mics, I preferred it in limited testing to the other zooms for music, for voice it doesn't matter so much. You can rewire it so that it is a 4 channel recorder, and so on. The H4 has the capacity to add more mics, but the H2 has four decent mics, and so it goes, around and around.
Everyone has their favorites. You can't go wrong with the H2.
 
Kit,

Another thought would be the Rode video mic. You can plug it directly to cam since it has internal power, or plug it into anything else with a 1/8 plug. This is a certain audio compromise, but may be the most compact setup.

The Rode NTG-2 and the AT-897 are shotguns with internal battery power and could be adapted to 1/8" I believe.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
Kit,

Another thought would be the Rode video mic. You can plug it directly to cam since it has internal power, or plug it into anything else with a 1/8 plug. This is a certain audio compromise, but may be the most compact setup.

The Rode NTG-2 and the AT-897 are shotguns with internal battery power and could be adapted to 1/8" I believe.

Grant
Click to expand...

Thanks Grant.

I am heavily considering the AT897, potentially 2 of them for a stereo setup or for recorder and camera tracks for more fail-safe operation. I have owned quite a few condenser mics, and I have always been a fan of the Sennheisers, but I may try something different this time. I had the Sennheiser ME67 Long shotguns for a long time and they worked out nicely, and I would consider the ME66's, but I'm not completely sold on them and they are nearly twice the price of the AT's. I usually don't care so much about pricing like that, but it seems performance wise, there's not a huge increase for twice the price. And the ME66 may be much longer than I am really looking for.

I am also considering the Zoom H1. Looks like what I have been looking for. Lots of great reviews on sound quality and it's tiny, which is what I want.
 
Kit,

Although I haven't owned a ME66, any side by side tests I have heard haven't been flattering of that model especially for the price. I have a AT-897 for my backup shotgun and it lives in a K-Tek Zep (mount with dead cat all in one) for quick use in my travel kit, and has served me well in that function, though is isn't really a shorty. More recently, the NTG-2 seems to be well thought of for a lower end shotgun, and it is battery powered also. I upgraded from my AT-897 to the NTG-3 and for $700, it is a huge step up and maybe the best value for the $$, but you will need external phantom.

Grant
 
http://www.naiant.com/tinyboxspecification.html

The guys over a taperssection.com like these a lot. It won't give you a full 48V though, only 16V- although that'll be enough to power a number of mics (mainly electet).

Also speaking of the M-Audio Microtrack it'll provide phantom over TRS jacks (you'll need to get TRS jack-XLR cables). Microtrack II will give 48V and the original Microtrack about 30V.
 
Over on taperssection.com they meticulously pour over every little detail of all these recorders, as that is their life - to record shows. I found you a thread on the PCM-M10 from when it first came out. They are up to "Part 4" thread about the recorder now, each part having 25 pages, so it's probably better to start at the beginning. The main thing you need to know is whether you want XLR inputs and phantom or not. If you don't need that then the M10 is a much better choice than the Zoom stuff. It's just got the Sony Quality, and quiet pres. If you need a 2 channel recorder with XLR input I would get something other than Zoom. Remember that your recorder is the bottle neck for all the sound in your productions, so don't cheap out over a couple hundred more dollars and lower the overall quality of everything you do. Not to knock the Zoom too much. You can get decent recordings with it, it's just not pro gear. There are some nice things in the 500-600.00 range. But back to the M10, it looks nice. I haven't used it. I have the D-50 and it is soooooo sweet. The M-10 has the same quality, but less features.

Study for yourself: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124639.msg1658713#msg1658713
 
Sound and size wise, the Core audio plus Microtrack is tough to beat. The microtrack is not noisy if you use the digital in.
The P48 from PSC is good, not to mention their ultralight shock mounts. Once you decide where you want your P48 and your AD conversion, your choices will be clearer.
Outboard P48 plus mics plus any flash recorder will give you decent sound, and the new Sony looks OK. The bigger FR2LE will give you great sound, P48 and XLR cables, but it isn't as small.
 
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