Super Slow Motion

slimjimmed

slimjimmed

Well-known member
I need to create a video of seeds being blown off a dandelion in extreme slow motion.

I realize that 720p with 60fps with the sq motion at 30 is usually the way to go. This is not slow enough for what I am trying to achieve.

Has anyone tried recording at 60fps(not using the S&Q motion), and then slowing through twixtor at really slow rates (5-15%).

I am going to conduct some tests, but was hoping someone had attempted to get super slow motion footage from an ex1 and could enlighten me to anything they might have learned. I have very little prep time to do this.

(Also, if you know of any very cost-effective way to achieve this, I am all ears! :) )
 
I haven't done it yet, but if you are shooting for a 24p project, and you do a slow mo at 60fps, it will be slower than in a 30fps project. From there you can probably slow it down more in post to a certain point.
 
The cheapest way to do good super slow motion is to hook it up to a 120 hertz television so that more frames will be created.
 
Red is $750 a day, which is not within the budget right now.

There doesn't seem to be any real option that will work, so I will do my best with the ex1, although my tests with twixtor were pretty underwhelming. I have to go down to 5-10% to be able to really see the seeds in flight.

Dandelion seeds move pretty quickly off of the stem, and with that kind of speed, you really need a slow motion camera that can record in 300fps and beyond to get anything polished.

It's either unfluid choppiness or Twixtor goop.
 
Unfortunately there's really no cheap solution for what you're looking for. You really need something that will shoot more fps.

No matter what you do with the S&Q footage from the EX1, it is still just just slowing down the playback rate and interpolating frames.

Do you need HD resolution? Casio has some still cameras that do some high speed video. 300fps, but of course at the expense of resolution (512 × 384).
 
handsome pete said:
Unfortunately there's really no cheap solution for what you're looking for. You really need something that will shoot more fps.

No matter what you do with the S&Q footage from the EX1, it is still just just slowing down the playback rate and interpolating frames.

Do you need HD resolution? Casio has some still cameras that do some high speed video. 300fps, but of course at the expense of resolution (512 × 384).
Click to expand...

I think this pretty much sums it up. (I would probably be willing to accept uprezzing 720x480, but the Casio resolution is just too tiny.)

I ended up shooting 60fps with 1/1000 shutter speed & Twixtor. It definitely does not look how I wanted....the wider shots are obviously more forgiving than closeups. The more you can reduce the rate or length of movement, the better Twixtor can interpret and create fake, intermittent frames.
 
Sorry to say but EX1/3 and all other Long GOP cameras dont realy play well with post slowmotion.. Done alot with twixtor over the years but since I got my EX it has proven itself more or less useless. Optical flow slowmotion cant interep the long GOP im afraid. Down to about 75% of the org. speed seems to work fine in my tests but below that stuff start to fall apart.
 
what a train of bad info this thread has become....

first of all, it doesn't make sense to use a faster shutter speed when shooting slow motion unless you want a fast shutter look. when shooting 60fps, the slowest possible shutter speed is 1/60th which is already faster than standard 1/48th. so motion blur will not be increased, but decreased. shooting at 1/1000th actually reduces the dramatic feel that you want to begin with when shooting slow motion.

as for the long GOP arguement, i use twixtor to slow my 60fps footage down even more all the time and it works just as well as when slowing hvx200 intra frame footage. i typically slow to 40%-50% with great success.

i have no idea what to make of the 120hz tv idea. what is the workflow there??

to the OP, i think you have it a little backwards. you would shoot 720p at either 24 or 30fps and set the s&q to 60fps. in your original post you talked about shooting 720p at 60fps and setting the s&q to 30. this would give you fast motion, not slow. as far as shooting 720p/60 and slowing in post, it's a bad way to do it. when shooting 720p/60 you are still only shooting 35mbps. this means less info per frame than if you were shooting 24fps. when you shoot at 24fps and crank the s&q up to 60fps, you are recording something like 87.5mbps which maintains your -35mbps per 24 frame- data rate.

bottom line, if ex1 or ex3 is your only camera option, shoot 720p/24 and s&q set to 60. then slow down in post with twixtor or after effects or shake or whatever. best possible solution.

as barry said, get a red. better yet, get a phantom and shoot 1000fps or faster....
 
cheezweezl said:
bottom line, if ex1 or ex3 is your only camera option, shoot 720p/24 and s&q set to 60. then slow down in post with twixtor or after effects or shake or whatever. best possible solution.
Click to expand...

That is if the OP is delivering in 24p.

I will respectfully disagree with you regarding shutter speeds.

In my experience, raising the shutter speed does help the look of slow motion footage, but I was coming from the viewpoint of a 60hz/fps delivery mode.

When I know a live event I am shooting might need some effects I will bump the shutter up to 1/125th to give a little cleaner edge to the subjects. This doubling of the shutter does not show too much at normal playback speed.

But how much you raise the shutter speed depends upon your subject motion. Shooting a golf club impacting a golf ball would need a quick shutter to get some sharpness in the frames.

I do not know how fast the seeds are blown off of the flower though.

The OP was talking about going down to 5% speed. This amount of slo-mo goes well beyond normal viewing or dramatic effect. At this speed you are relying upon upon the editing software to interpolate every frame to its limits, so sharp edges from a quick shutter speed imho would produce a better result.

I use Nano flashes and have found only a slight, marginal improvement using I-frame vs long GOP with slow motion. The long GOP stuff works fine in slo-mo. Higher the bitrate the better.
 
cheezweezl said:
you would shoot 720p at either 24 or 30fps and set the s&q to 60fps.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's whatt I meant...I'm a little dyslexic sometimes. :)

As far as the fast shutter speed goes. This was because of the speed of the seeds that fly off of the stem. Twixtor doesn't do as well with frames that have extreme motion blur, which is what happened in my dandelion tests at lower shutter speeds.

Twixtor works very well at 50% with most of the footage I shoot, however dandelion seeds blowing off of a stem are just too quick for the Ex1.
 
to get the effect you are looking for, you probably need a phantom or similar high speed cam. i don't thin the red at 120fps will help much..
 
cheezweezl said:
what a train of bad info this thread has become....

first of all, it doesn't make sense to use a faster shutter speed when shooting slow motion unless you want a fast shutter look. when shooting 60fps, the slowest possible shutter speed is 1/60th which is already faster than standard 1/48th. so motion blur will not be increased, but decreased. shooting at 1/1000th actually reduces the dramatic feel that you want to begin with when shooting slow motion.

as for the long GOP arguement, i use twixtor to slow my 60fps footage down even more all the time and it works just as well as when slowing hvx200 intra frame footage. i typically slow to 40%-50% with great success.

i have no idea what to make of the 120hz tv idea. what is the workflow there??

to the OP, i think you have it a little backwards. you would shoot 720p at either 24 or 30fps and set the s&q to 60fps. in your original post you talked about shooting 720p at 60fps and setting the s&q to 30. this would give you fast motion, not slow. as far as shooting 720p/60 and slowing in post, it's a bad way to do it. when shooting 720p/60 you are still only shooting 35mbps. this means less info per frame than if you were shooting 24fps. when you shoot at 24fps and crank the s&q up to 60fps, you are recording something like 87.5mbps which maintains your -35mbps per 24 frame- data rate.

bottom line, if ex1 or ex3 is your only camera option, shoot 720p/24 and s&q set to 60. then slow down in post with twixtor or after effects or shake or whatever. best possible solution.

as barry said, get a red. better yet, get a phantom and shoot 1000fps or faster....
Click to expand...


Huum I accualy got to try the new 4.5.8 version of twixtor this weeks and it does do the job alot better.. however.. 40-50% is nothing realy when were talking about super slow.. around 5-10% thats the sh-t :happy:

My recomendation for getting the most out of the EX1 in slowmotion is shooting against "simpel" backgrounds, meening, blue sky, a wall.. whatever.. dont have simular colors as the objekt that you want to slow down. And shoot with rather high shutter speed. I always shoot around 1/500 and that gives super results. Just did a edit for Nike with this setup and managed to get some sick shoots out in super slow (did a fast calc. math and it gave me somewere around 5000 fps)

Can try to post a sample somewere tomorrow
 
Jim,

The Casio camera that someone recommended really is the most cost-effective solution for a shot like this. For 300fps you would need to rent a Phantom HD camera which is about $2.5K/day.

You MAY be able to find some stock footage.
 
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