super slow motion settings and workflow

mcshyd

mcshyd

Well-known member
The way I see it I have two options-

Shoot in the cameras native slo-mo and process it further with twixtor or some other software solution, or shoot 60fps, high shutter speed, and do it entirely in software.

To get the speed I want, I'm going to have to manipulate it later, no matter what. Does anyone have any experience with this?

I'll run some tests when I get off of work...
 
I read that tutorial, and it doesn't really address the question as it pertains to the HVX. I'm not going to shoot interlaced with the hvx. I'd rather shoot myself in the foot.

Unless Barry told me to or something, not that I don't trust you...

Thanks, though.
 
I've shot 60fps in the 24PN mode and slowed it down in FCP and it held up really well... the extra frames in the source made it so the FCP render didn't have any ghosting. This was with two pigeons in a battle over some bread, and they have some really quick wing movements, so if it's not anything that's that fast to begin with, it should work for you
 
The camera doesn't record redundant frames in PN mode, but what mrWr0ng did was overcrank the camera, recording 2.5 times as many frames as are needed.

If you set the camera for 24PN mode and set the frame rate to 60 (they are separate and independent settings), you have more frames than you need for realtime playback, and this results in smooth in-camera slow motion video.
 
So when you pull in the footage, you can still manipulate a full 60fps in post? whats the difference between 24p native and 24p then?
 
what happens is that it records 60fps but sits it in a 24fps timeline, if you record 10 seconds worth of footage, then it actually comes out to 25 seconds. I've then used FCP to slow it down an additional 50% to get it up to 50 seconds and no ghosting.

24PN means that it only records 24fps while 24P means that it records 24fps in the 60fps timeline and the additional frames need to be pulled out. Functionally i''m not sure if there's a difference between 24p w/out pulldown and 24pn at 60fps aside from the timeline it records to (when you import it it's already in slow motion and drops right into a 24fps timeline) but in 24p the base is 60i, so maybe it's interlaced? Not sure.
 
I'd personally recommend shooting at 720/60p.

When I first started trying to do this, I shot at either 720/24pn or 720/30pn, and used VFR to do 60fps.

But the ONLY differences between doing this and shooting 720/60p, are two things:

1) You get to see the slow-mo in camera, whereas with 720/60p, you see it in full speed until you play it back at 29.97 in post.

2) YOU DON'T GET SOUND USING VFR! For this reason alone, I prefer to use 720/60p. check this out: www.dallasareavideo.com/kylenollieheelhi.wmv I slowed that down a little further than even 60 fps will let you do, so there's a bit of After Effects frame blending. I also should have shot with a higher shutter speed. Now if I had chosen to shoot 30pn, there'd be no sound.

So my workflow is: shoot at 720/60p. Import to premiere (or in that specific time remapping example, After Effects), which automatically interprets it as 59.94p. Then, chance the app's interpretation of the clip to 29.97, and drop into a 29.97 timeline (or, of course, change it to 23.976, and drop it into a 24p timeline). It now plays at half speed.

To do the time remapping, like I did: Shoot 720/60p. import to AE. Drag the clip to the 'new comp' button to make one with the settings of the clip. Then, change the comp's settings to be 29.97 instead of 59.94. Then enable time remapping on the layer, and you'll notice every frame in the composition that you skip forward, the footage jumps two frames, because it's got twice as many.
 
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PN and Sound

PN and Sound

Does the hvx not record any sound what so ever (on board or external mic) when shooting in the pn mode?
 
It records sound in the PN modes, but only if you have the 'frame rate' setting in the scene file set to 'Default'. If you use the Variable frame rate function, then you don't get audio.

Before it occured to me that I could just shoot 720/60p, I had a remedy for this situation. I shot 30pn, with VFR at 60, and then I got a friend to shoot with a VX2100 right next to me. I took the audio from his clip, set it's speed to 50%, and aligned it with my video. There's ways around it.

Reasons to use 720/60p for slowmo:

SOUND!!!

Reasons to use 720/30pNor24pN for slowmo:

You can see the speed effect right away in camera, and you must use this method if you want to dub the overcranked footage to tape from the P2. If you just use 720/60p, it'll dub over at full speed.
 
I don't need sound- it's a music vid. I'm mostly concerned with getting frame by frame stills that rival a high-speed camera. I have a feeling that shooting 60p will be the way to go- just so I have the extra frames to play with. I'll post some clips once i mess around with it...
 
I have an additional questions about this. I was wondering what the process was if i wanted a shot where the it begins at normal speed (lets say a group of people dancing) than it all of a sudden slow down as a subject does a trick, than back to regular speed. Do you record the whole thing in 60p, put the footage into 24p timeline, than speed up the parts you want to be in normal speed?
 
Yep. And if you did that in shake with adaptive retiming, or with Twixtor, then the whole thing would be glass smoth as it's only throwing frames away, but nothing would be blended.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't using the super slo-mo technique described in that other thread effectively halve your vertical resolution?

He is taking a single interlaced field, interpolating and using it as a full frame. This couldn't look anywhere near as good as shooting 50 or 60p.

I would expect that shooting 50 or 60p, using it in a normal speed timeline and then applying Twixtor you could expect some amazing effects at around 10-20% providing your shutter speed is high enough. Depending on the destination frame rate you could expect to at least halve that again down to something like 5-10%.

I haven't got a HVX, but do have quite a bit of experience with Twixtor, and it could surely pull this off. Especially provided with nice crisp progressive HVX images, it would lap it. Has anybody tried this as yet?
 
.... who said anything about interlaced?

We're talking about 720/60p.

And leejam, check out my first post in this topic, I provide an example of what (I think) you're trying to do, and I explain how (with AE, but I assume Shake's 'adaptive retiming' is the equivalent of AE's 'time remapping').
 
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