Super Confused - Which Camera?

HowdyDoo

HowdyDoo

Well-known member
Alright... I've been reading posts and following the news on all the cameras currently available and after 4 months I STILL have no idea as to what camera to get.

I am an independent filmmaker that makes commercials for a living. I make low budget commercials ($1K - $2K) to medium/high budget commercials ($15K - $30K). For now I've been shooting my low budget commercials with my DVX100a and renting the Varicam and the SDX900 for the other stuff. I make feature films in my off time.

What camera best suits my needs? The Sony, the JVC, the Panasonic, or the Canon? Each camera has major aspects to it that both entice me and frighten me. I would like a professionals opinion as to which camera best suits my needs. I didn't know much about the JVC until just recently and it looks pretty good from what I can tell.

Any opinions?
 
If you're used to the DVX, the HVX is exactly the same thing, only with high def and variable frame rates. You'll get the same menus, the same operation, the same great color and John's patented "mojo", but "more". And an HVX makes an excellent b-camera to a Varicam.

Other factors to consider are:
do you need (and by need, I mean NEED) the shoulder-mount form factor?

do you need (and I do mean NEED) interchangeable lens capability?

do you NEED HD-SDI output capability?

do you NEED variable frame rates?

do you NEED 4:2:2 color sampling?

do you NEED multiple recording formats (DV, DV50, 720p, 1080i/p) all in the same camera?

Answer those questions and you'll be well on your way to sorting which of these units will serve your purpose best. They're all different and they all excel at something or other.

This will surprise no-one, but for your particular needs I think the HVX is far and away the best choice. It will match the SDX and VariCam and DVX better than the others, it will deliver a compatible look to what you've already got, and you already know how to use it. And the type of products you're doing are well-suited to the P2 workflow.
 
You can pump up your low budget to dvcpro 50. Man that's huge compared to dv and you still be SD. No other camera could do this, in this price range. And if you're a commercial maker. P2 is the way to go, defenitely. Dropframes and all tape related problems are gone.
 
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Thanks for the advice! This forum is filled with great people!

I don't need a shoulder mount form factor but interchangeable lenses is a big deal for me. I often shoot commercials incorporating vast landscapes so I like to go with the widest lens I can get my hands on. HD-SDI isn't an option because I move around ALOT and powering and lugging a VTR around isn't possible. I only need variable frame rates for 24p and that's it. I do shoot green screen so 4:2:2 is definitely something I'm interested in.

Ultimately... I want the best image quality for the money. That's my bottom line. I live in Oklahoma and there are not many places to try these cameras out for myself. The clips I download from people are helpful but still, it's hard to tell when you're not looking at the footage on a TV.

The HVX seems to be what people are pointing me towards. I sure wish the P2 cards were larger and more affordable. Then it wouldn't be a question at all.
 
Agreed. I think folks are so hyped on the HD part (with very good reason) that they forget about the ability to shoot DVCPro 50, which excites me as much as the HD part of the camera does.
 
Okay, narrowing it down...

Interchangeable lenses: the question is, interchange with what? Would a lens adapter help? An HD100 can get to 3.5mm with the $12,000 optional lens. The XLH1 can get to something like 2.7mm with the standard-def 3x wide-angle. An HVX with a .6 lens adapter gets you to 2.5mm. Would an HVX with .6 be enough, or do you need to actually interchange the lens with something else?

If all you need is 24p, that puts the JVC and HVX in the game. Do you ever need to shoot "reality"/"video"-looking footage? If so, the JVC doesn't do that in high def. If that's not a concern, don't worry about it.

If you're shooting greenscreen in standard-def, the HVX is heads & shoulders better than the rest. In high-def it's still fantastic, although I haven't conducted simultaneous greenscreen shoots against the others.

As far as larger/more affordable P2 cards, don't forget the 100gb FireStore and the 320gb CinePorter that are coming out soon. As for the P2 cards themselves, time will take care of both issues; as time goes by they become both larger and more affordable.
 
Barry, I know you can't really answer this because they aren't out yet, but based on what you know of the Firestore and the Cineporter, which are you leaning to and why?
 
I'd have to find a 10-foot pole before I even started to think about answering that one! :)

Seriously, I love the way Spec-Comm is talking about their product, I really think they may have a significant edge if it does everything they're promising. Firestore has frustrated me with what appears to be a narrow tunnel-vision approach; they won't even commit to stripping out duplicate frames which would give the FS-100 the ability to record over four hours of 720/24p. Near as I can tell they're planning on just storing the raw 100-megabit signal, which is just so frustrating.

But, on the other hand, FireStore is on their FIFTH generation of firewire hard disk recorders. This'll be Spec-Comm's first foray. And FireStore is partnered with Panasonic, so they have access to and cooperation from the manufacturer, whereas Spec-Comm has to do it by themselves.

If all works out like the promises are promising, no doubt the CinePorter has a lot to offer over the firestore. But will all work out according to the promises? It's a tough one. That's a tough question. I'd much rather have a rock-solid-reliable 100gb unit than a 320gb unit that for some reason or other isn't quite ready for prime time (not saying that Spec-Comm won't deliver an out-of-the-park home run, I'm just saying that we don't know yet).

The best thing about it is that if you make the wrong choice (for you), there's always ebay to (mostly) bail you out! :thumbsup:
 
Barry_Green said:
Near as I can tell they're planning on just storing the raw 100-megabit signal, which is just so frustrating.
Click to expand...

I share your frustration, but if they're partnered with Panasonic, they may have a very good reason for doing so?
 
May be. But as a programmer I just can't accept that someone couldn't strip out the duplicate frames on ingest. FCP does it. It's obvious it's possible. If they're not engineering it to handle that, then that's most disappointing.
 
Barry_Green said:
If all you need is 24p, that puts the JVC and HVX in the game. Do you ever need to shoot "reality"/"video"-looking footage? If so, the JVC doesn't do that in high def. If that's not a concern, don't worry about it.

If you're shooting greenscreen in standard-def, the HVX is heads & shoulders better than the rest. In high-def it's still fantastic, although I haven't conducted simultaneous greenscreen shoots against the others.
Click to expand...

Howdy,

24F from the Canon XL-H1 is basically 24p too. Also, HDV from the camera downsamples extremely well to DVCPRO 50. There's a lot of chroma information from HDV that can be of benefit in SD. You can shoot HDV for the future, (and also SDI if you want to go the extra mile) but get a great SD chroma key from a downconvert, believe it or not. And the H1 has very very good 1080i, which is great for the ultimate "reality" video look. The H1 shoots true DV 24p also, and is very sharp.

FWIW,

Elton
 
my mind is a whirlwind of indecision.

my mind is a whirlwind of indecision.

i hate to sound like a weak, indecisive person but when it comes to choosing my next camera, that's exactly what i am. i'm still so lost and the more research i do, the more lost i become.

when the dvx100 first hit the market the decision was easy. the dvx blew all the competition away. it was a clear and simple choice.

but now... every camera has different pros and cons and they ALL carry a much higher price tag.

forget my commercial work for now. what would you say is the BEST camera to make a feature film with? canon, panasonic, or jvc? i've ruled out the sony.

i keep hearing that the jvc image quality is way beyond the panasonic. that along with the interchangeable lenses makes the jvc very enticing. i use final cut pro and i have no idea how compatible the jvc codec is so i'm hesitant to buy based on that aspect alone.

the panasonic's small form factor, multiple frame rates, 4:2:2 color, and dvcpro50,are the features that lure me to that particular camera.

but ultimately... if the jvc has a SIGNIFICANTLY better image quality over the panasonic, i'll go with that.

BUUUTTT... then again... if the jvc image quality is not significant enough for a standard audience to tell the difference from the panasonic, i'll go with the panasonic.

grrrrrrrrrr. i need someone to punch me in the face and tell me which camera to buy.
 
If it helps at all, I had considered the JVC briefly, but even the smallest chance of experiencing the "split-screen" effect ruled it out for me very quickly...
 
Dude HowdyDoo, t

The HVX is well liked by everyone on this board. I think you'll come to find a biased opinion on any camera anyone owns. But if you look at professionals and how they handle the decision on camera choice, I'm pretty sure most of them go with work-flow and compatibility. How great the image looks is also a deciding factor, but most people will be biased in what's best too.

In all, it's up to you. If I was in your position, I'd rent out each camera and see which one works best for me. Sure the H1 has good 1080i and still image recording, but the HVX has 720p variable frame rates with P2 cards and it's a DVX on steroids. Go with what you think will work best for you in your productions.

For me, the HVX is a no-brainer. I think the best 'research' you'll find about any of these cameras is right here on this sight. The HVX has an abundance of information at your disposal. Good luck with your choice.
 
Justin_Kirch said:
If I was in your position, I'd rent out each camera and see which one works best for me. Sure the H1 has good 1080i and still image recording, but the HVX has 720p variable frame rates with P2 cards and it's a DVX on steroids. Go with what you think will work best for you in your productions.
Click to expand...

Sage advice, yet so simple. Image quality is paramount, but workflow and functionality are probably equally important. The only way to get the true sense of what works best for you is getting some time behind the wheel of each camera you're considering. And film out in the field, not in a showroom with dim lighting and only a live signal to look at. Get a sense of how the images look and feel from the recording format you will use most...i.e. P2 DVCPRO HD or HDV.
 
Alrighty then...

Alrighty then...

the HVX it is.

I'm convinced. I just wish it had interchangeable lenses. I used to own an XL-1 and I LOVED being able to change lenses for different shots. It made all the difference in the world. Can you imagine if the HVX had interchangeable lenses? Ohhhhh man.

But... it doesn't... and I'm not gonna think about it anymore. I'm just gonna buy it.

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
Howdy, I'm glad you've come over to the good side. Just save up for a G35. It's the best 35mm adaptor out there for it's excellent quality to price ratio. It will be a good purchase, I promise.
 
G35?

G35?

What is the G35? I did a google search for it and the results revealed a bunch of cars. What company manufactures it and do they make lenses, too?

I used to own the 35mm adapter for the XL1. My only complaint was that the adapter was only good for using long lenses. Wide angle lenses didn't do it justice. I really like wide, slightly distorted shots (like in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas). Will the G35 allow me to use wide angle lenses with the HVX?
 
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