Suggested Mic Setup for a Beach location?

richke

richke

Well-known member
Hello Everyone!

As a part of my "12 Films in 12 Months" series I am working on this year I have a script called "Amelia" that is set on an abandoned beach. I will hopefully be going up to a local beach here in Indiana/Michigan. I know all my CAM equipment will work on battery but what do I do for audio? There is not a lot of audio but there is one line. But I would like to capture ambience and the one line of diaglog...but how in the world do you do this with no power? Also the line is said in water that will be up to our waists...
Any ideas?

thanks,
Rich
 
Hi, Rich.

For all the ambient sounds, I'd focus on those separate from the video production. Same day or the next day or the day before, spend a considerable amount of time around the beach and in the water with a handheld recorder and headphones. Record a couple minutes of each space/perspective. Get the beach with the waves to one side. Get the perspective of standing on the beach and looking out over the water. Get in the water and get the perspective of looking both further out and back at the beach. Each spot will have a different sound. And if it's a place that has some very distinct waves (if there are places that are a little more rocky), get some close-up recordings of waves in a few different places. These will give you plenty of pieces and parts to weave together a soundscape for your video.

As for the dialog, compact sound kits (ENG/EFP style) run on battery power. Get a sound person with the proper kit for that part of the shoot. It requires a recorder, mixer, and the appropriate mic (likely a shotgun on a boom since "in the water" wardrobe doesn't leave much wardrobe for burying a lav and transmitter. Though, if the actors are wearing clothes in the water (read: more substantial than swimsuits), there are waterproof packs available for wireless transmitters, and lavs like the Countryman B6 are water resistant.

The goal is to get any dialog in this scene as clear as possible with as little extraneous sound as possible, since you'll be adding the ambient sound in later.
 
Yeah this is a no budget film so finding a "sound guy" is really tough. I have a Boom mic setup, with a juicelink box(runs on 9V) to the cam and a RODE NTG1 mic(needs power). Is there anything I can connect to this setup to make it battery powered or no?

What do you suggest for a handheld recorder? Nothing too pricey but not crap either. Thanks for the tips on capturing ambiance...I never thought of any of that.
 
Which Juicedlink? It's an active box, since it runs on a 9v... does it have a +48v phantom power option? If not, you need some sort of external pre-amp, like the Sound Devices MM-1. Renting can be much cheaper than buying for a one-off, though, so look maybe at renting a small mixer. Sound Devices MixPre-D or 302 are both small and battery-powered. Just don't forget to use headphones!

As for a handheld recorder, there's a sticky on that... but for the best value in low-cost recorders, I'd take a serious look at the DR-40 from TASCAM. Again, don't forget the headphones!
 
Ha! I was just about ready to post this. :)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821259-REG/Tascam_DR_40_DR_40_4_Track_Handheld_Digital.html

And with this essential it would replace my juicedlink? FYI it was the basic two port hookup, I think I paid $139, 3 years ago for it. It only gets the input from the mics into the camera. The Mic has a phantom power, yes.

I'll look into your suggestions...where I am from it seems hard to find rental places for this stuff too. That link above does not provide power to the mic if I plug XLR cables into the handheld recorder, right?
 
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My question was if the Juicedlink box had a phantom power switch on it. If it does, then your mic can be powered.

The DR-40 has phantom power. Be advised, though, that the NTG-1 and NTG-2 have slightly weaker output signals than some other shotguns so they require more gain for proper recording levels, and the pre-amps in most of these low-cost devices (Juicedlink, TASCAM handheld recorders) are not clean enough to add the extra gain without adding some noise. The DR-40, however, will allow you to expand later with a better pre-amp or mixer.

Will the DR-40 replace your Juicedlink? Maybe, maybe not. If you're shooting on a DSLR, then an external recorder is highly recommended. Considering the aforementioned signal level of the NTG-1/2, there's also the pre-amp challenge, but again that can be overcome with an external pre-amp or mixer. You'll also want to pick up a dumb slate to make sync of your sound files to your video clips easier in post. And you'll need a furry windscreen for recording outdoors: the built-in mics aren't wind-proof at all.

There's also the new DR-60 which offers a recorder with phantom power, more than two inputs, and an output to feed your camera as well. Of course, you won't have the built-in, stereo mic array for grabbing sound beds. Also, the pre-amps won't be any better for your NTG shotgun than those in any of the other low-cost recorders.
 
No the Juicedlink is 9V only if I remember correctly. The Phantom power box connects directly to my NTG1 and then into the Juicelink. Ok I think I got a handle on it, I notice the slight hum when I mess with the gain with the NTG1/juicedlink but I can easily remove it in post. Overall I like my setup but know it can be better. I shoot on a Panasonic MC40 with NO mic inputs, but I already owned the JL. I wanted to get the HMC150 that has the inputs but it was just too much...wishing I went now because I would not need these external devices and power sources. :)
 
richke said:
No the Juicedlink is 9V only if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...

?

Again, which model of Juicedlink? That'll help me help you. It may take a 9v battery, but it can use that power to create +48v phantom. Without knowing the model number, I have no idea what you're working with.

richke said:
The Phantom power box connects directly to my NTG1 and then into the Juicelink. Ok I think I got a handle on it
Click to expand...

It's not just a "phantom power box" that you're looking for. Dedicated phantom power supplies exist, but what you want is an external pre-amp or mixer. We're not just talking about phantom power here, but clean gain as well.

richke said:
I notice the slight hum when I mess with the gain with the NTG1/juicedlink but I can easily remove it in post. Overall I like my setup but know it can be better.
Click to expand...

So you get a signal from your mic (other than just the hum) when you connect it to the Juicedlink? That means that it's getting power from the Juicedlink. It wouldn't have any signal at all otherwise (except maybe the hum).

richke said:
I shoot on a Panasonic MC40 with NO mic inputs, but I already owned the JL. I wanted to get the HMC150 that has the inputs but it was just too much...wishing I went now because I would not need these external devices and power sources. :)
Click to expand...

Then get one of THESE. It's made for the HMC40 and will solve many of your problems.
 
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I'm not sure of the model I am not at home but honestly I do not think it can take a power supply of any kind. I can picture the inputs and outputs and there is not input for power.

I think the JL is the pre-amp in my equation(I think). Mic to Power/IN then Power/Out to JL Input 1 then mic out to Cam Mic IN.

The attachment for the HMC would still need external power right? so this would not help on my beach shoot?
 
richke said:
I'm not sure of the model I am not at home but honestly I do not think it can take a power supply of any kind.

The attachment for the HMC would still need external power right? so this would not help on my beach shoot?
Click to expand...

This is not a question of power in. Look back at my previous posts, but to clarify:

The Juicedlink takes a 9v battery to operate. That means that it's an active pre-amp. If you connect your NTG-1 and you get sound, that means that the Juicedlink is supplying +48v Phantom. Otherwise, there would be no audible sound passing through the mic/Juicedlink and into the camera. Again: there are pre-amps, even from Juicedlink, that use a 9v battery to generate a 48v charge.

For comparison's sake: the Sound Devices MixPre-D supplies +48v phantom to one or both of its inputs. It's only power source? Two AA batteries. You do not have to be plugged into an electrical outlet.

The attachment for the HMC40 draws power from the camera using contacts in the mount. It does not need any other power source, and will supply the power needed for your RØDE shotgun.

richke said:
I think the JL is the pre-amp in my equation(I think). Mic to Power/IN then Power/Out to JL Input 1 then mic out to Cam Mic IN.
Click to expand...

What are these "Power/IN" and "Power/Out" connections you speak of? These don't make sense, unless the mic is passing through something else before it goes into the Juicedlink. Can you explain, please?
 
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Hey richke,

It sounds like you should get and use the Tascam DR40 to supply phantom power and record audio or the HMC40 xlr adapter. A helpful technique would be to record your dialogue line as a 'wild line' meaning when you are not recording video. This way you can get your mic up really close to the actor and get a clean read of the line without too much interfering ambience. You can sync in post which shouldn't be hard for one line. Just make sure to take a bunch of wild line takes of it with the actor mimicing how they read in the video.

Alex: I think he has one of the Juicelink's that has a powered pre-amp but not phantom power because usually those units have 2 x 9v's... one for mixer power and one for phantom.

Hope this helps,
Andy
 
@Alex...You know I have never tried to connect my mic directly to the JL. :)

When I was researching years ago people said I needed some sort of power supply to power the mic. So yes I have the JL Unit and a separate power unit(that needs AC Power source) that has a MIC IN and MIC Out. The RODE NTG1 connects to the IN of the power unit, then the OUT connects to Input 1 on the JL unit. If the JL can power the MICs then I am all set

If after I test the JL power of the MIC and it does not work then I agree the Panasonic Attachment might be my best option. Thanks again for all your help on this and sorry for the confusion.
 
FYI I found my old receipt from 2009 -
[TABLE="width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 55%"]juicedLink CX211 2-Channel XLR is my model. Which it doesn't seem to have phantom power. the model above it does. Dang wish I knew what all that meant 4 years ago :)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
For the dialog I can advice like a
sennheiser EW 112-P G3 or other lav's, with wind jammer. Because directional will often pic up the waves.
When using a boom/directional because of swimming outfit, aim to the sky not the water if possible :)
 
Joost said:
For the dialog I can advice like a
sennheiser EW 112-P G3 or other lav's, with wind jammer. Because directional will often pic up the waves.
When using a boom/directional because of swimming outfit, aim to the sky not the water if possible :)
Click to expand...

I have a boom now s thank you for the tip! some very helpful tips thus far. Glad I posted :)
 
richke said:
@Alex...You know I have never tried to connect my mic directly to the JL. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah... it is helpful to specify your entire signal chain, and it was never clearly stated that you were using a phantom power supply.

richke said:
When I was researching years ago people said I needed some sort of power supply to power the mic. So yes I have the JL Unit and a separate power unit(that needs AC Power source) that has a MIC IN and MIC Out. The RODE NTG1 connects to the IN of the power unit, then the OUT connects to Input 1 on the JL unit. If the JL can power the MICs then I am all set
Click to expand...

"Mic in" and "mic out" make much more sense than "power in" and "power out." You do have an external phantom power supply, but one that requires wall power to operate. Getting the HMC adapter for your camera will allow you both to power the mic and to record dialog straight to the camera without any extra power supplies or adapters.

richke said:
If after I test the JL power of the MIC and it does not work then I agree the Panasonic Attachment might be my best option. Thanks again for all your help on this and sorry for the confusion.
Click to expand...

Having a clear definition of your signal chain, and now the specific model number of the Juicedlink, the NTG-1 will not work alone without a phantom power supply between it and the Juicedlink.

The HMC adapter is a must, but I'd still get a DR-40 as it gives you a separate device for grabbing your ambient sounds.
 
richke said:
Yeah this is a no budget film so finding a "sound guy" is really tough. I have a Boom mic setup, with a juicelink box(runs on 9V) to the cam and a RODE NTG1 mic(needs power). Is there anything I can connect to this setup to make it battery powered or no?

What do you suggest for a handheld recorder? Nothing too pricey but not crap either. Thanks for the tips on capturing ambiance...I never thought of any of that.
Click to expand...

Just got myself a Tascam DR-60, $350, so far works great, worth looking into. Also, where in MI at the lake are you thinking?
 
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