Studio set up: New 3000 led light at CRI>95

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eric teotico

Active member
I'm setting up a small studio and I was wondering which lighting set up would best fit me. It's mostly talk shows and interviews. Could you help me? I'm working on a budget of $3000 for the studio lights. I saw this 3000 led continious lighting light being sold by a china manufacturer in ebay. I was also planning to get this plus a 2 x CN900 or 2 x 1000 Konovo (30 degree angle) leds and a 2 x 350w freshnel. I was impressed with the specs of the 3000 because it says CRI 95 but has anyone tried it. Here's the link and specs:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3000-LED-Pa...ing-Light-Dimmer-/170714170030#ht_2281wt_2951
Specification:​
​
-LED Bulbs Amount: 3000PCS
-Size of Lighting: 1500mm×30mm×8mm
-Dimmer:Adjustable output from 10% to 100%
-Degree angle: 60
-Lumens:20000
-Average Service Life: 50000Hours
-CRI>95
-The product is suitable for A/C power 110V~240V
-Net Weight: 6000g
Package include:
1 x 3000 Leds Video Lighting + Dimmer
1 x Power Adapter for AC 110-240V to DC 14.4-15V
1 x Connect for stands
 
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I've never heard of any LED panels getting up to 95 CRI before. I'd be wary of those claims.
 
eric teotico said:
I'm setting up a small studio and I was wondering which lighting set up would best fit me. It's mostly talk shows and interviews. Could you help me? I'm working on a budget of $3000 for the studio lights. I saw this 3000 led continious lighting light being sold by a china manufacturer in ebay. I was also planning to get this plus a 2 x CN900 or 2 x 1000 Konovo (30 degree angle) leds and a 2 x 350w freshnel. I was impressed with the specs of the 3000 because it says CRI 95 but has anyone tried it. Here's the link and specs:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3000-LED-Pa...ing-Light-Dimmer-/170714170030#ht_2281wt_2951
Specification:​
​
-LED Bulbs Amount: 3000PCS
-Size of Lighting: 1500mm×30mm×8mm
-Dimmer:Adjustable output from 10% to 100%
-Degree angle: 60
-Lumens:20000
-Average Service Life: 50000Hours
-CRI>95
-The product is suitable for A/C power 110V~240V
-Net Weight: 6000g
Package include:
1 x 3000 Leds Video Lighting + Dimmer
1 x Power Adapter for AC 110-240V to DC 14.4-15V
1 x Connect for stands
Click to expand...

There are a number of things 'left out' of their specs. A useful spec for photographic work is Footcandles/lux delivered at distances... giving the 'lumen' big as it may be... but with only 'beam angle' on a fixture that is a long rectangle, calculating the delivered fc/lx values is 'arduous'...

For $150 that I paid for some lights that had just 'lumens' and 'great lights for photography', I knew I was taking a chance.... for 1500... I turn into a conservative and want to see 'real' numbers that I can use, rather than numbers thrown around and if it 'sticks' it may be just luck.

The CRI sounds fishy as well...

I'm sort of thinking that one would do just as well to buy bulbs 'bare' and put them in a fixture with an appropriate power supply... while that DIY sort of thing is not for everyone, I thin for 'cheap' lighting solutions at this point that's the only way one will get 'cheap' and something that may work... even if it doesn't work, the 'exercise' is perhaps a learning process of why one pays the big bux...
 
If I was looking for something portable, I would consider the Flolight 1x1 LED light that costs $800, with light output equivalent to 1000 watts tungsten, with a CRI rating of 93, and Chimera now make a Flolight 1x1 softbox for this light.

Flolight MicroBeam 1024 High Powered Video Light (5600K) : $800 from B&H Photo

If I was looking for something that doesn't have to travel, then a 6 tube fluorescent light bank would be cheaper, put out more light, with a CRI rating of 95.

Flolight FL-330AWD Fluorescent Video Light with Wireless Dimming (5400K Daylight) : $600 from B&H Photo

In either case, I would be buying from B&H Photo in New York, so I know that any problems that happen will be taken care of properly.
 
What color temperature is that light ? High CRI numbers ( 90 and over) are usually in the area of warm tinted leds like 2800 to 4000K. If that light is a cool 5500K degree or more (most likely) , then I would assume the CRI falls within the usual 80ish or less like the rest of the herd.
 
From the best manufacturers like CREE, we're seeing 4000K emitters hitting 90 - 92 CRI. Very few emitters that we've seen render at >95. I would love to see the LM79 report on the emitters in a fixture like this. Without knowing the total wattage (e.g., 900w), it is difficult to know anything about the LEDs they're using. If they are .3W emitters, you could have 10K of them and still not see much light at a 60 degree beam angle.
 
Yes, I'm also looking at the flolight package of 2 x 1024 and 1 x 500 leds. I'm looking at the best flexibility to shoot studio and location. If I do go LEDs should I get the 60 degree or 30 degree angle lights? Flolight gives this option.
 
You can always flood a spot ( with diffusers ) but spotting a flood ??
If I had to choose a single unit, then a 30 degree spot would do. The narrower beam had the advantage of a longer throw ( brighter) when a longer distance from light source to subject is needed. A wide flood would be eventually needed.
 
Thank you. All your advice has been very helpful. I checked out the article of Guy Holt at the Screenlight and Grip News letter and I found it an eyeopener on LED's characteristics. As a summary it's lighting characteristics are not yet on par with cinema lighting. The problem now is I'm more confused with which lights to invest in. I will definitely get 2 freshnels. I already have 2 x 4 and 6 bank florescents but they are heavy and not as practical for location work as leds. Are the flo light microbeam LEDs good enough since I have a limited budget?
 
eric teotico said:
Are the flo light microbeam LEDs good enough since I have a limited budget?
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...I think the question you should be asking is: Are there better options than LED lights?

I also own a tungsten kit and a few 4 and 6 bank fluorescents, but these aren't much help when I need to shoot as a one-man-crew where I want to augment daylight balanced window light. Compact daylight balanced lights would be the best solution for these situations, and right now that means LED 1x1 lights. I honestly can't think of a better solution for this.
 
Dingo,
I follow you and agree with your thinking. Which Led lights did you choose and how did you manage the led cast issues?
 
TheDingo said:
...I think the question you should be asking is: Are there better options than LED lights?.... I honestly can't think of a better solution for this.
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What I take away from Guy Holt’s LED article is that you would do better with a Kino BarFly than an LED panel. They aren’t much bigger than the 1x1 LED panels. They put out a lot more light. They can be lamped daylight or tungsten. They draw little power and can be battery operated. But most importantly they offer much better color rendition - especially when it comes to flesh tones. A distinct advantage to Kino Flos over LED panels is that their discontinuous color spectrum can be easily corrected with gels, LEDs cannot according to Guy Holt's article. I find that once I correct for the green spike of Kino-Flo’s, I get a much better flesh tone than what I get with the Phospher White LED panels. And if say I want to warm them up, I know what to expect when I put Color Correction CTO Gels on them. Using CTO gels on LEDs leads to unexpected and undesirable results (see Guy Holt’s article for details.)

White Hot Josh
 
White Hot Josh said:
What I take away from Guy Holt’s LED article is that you would do better with a Kino BarFly than an LED panel. They aren’t much bigger than the 1x1 LED panels. They put out a lot more light.
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Kinoflo BarFly 400D : 732 lux at 6 feet

FloLight 1x1 LED : 3,230 lux at 6 feet

...So it looks like the Flolight 1x1 30 degree LED light generates 4.5 times the amount of light a Kinoflo BarFly 400D does and costs 2/3 the price. ( based on current pricing at B&H Photo )
 
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eric teotico said:
Which Led lights did you choose and how did you manage the led cast issues?
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I've been renting Lite Panel 1x1 lights, and have been very unhappy with the low output from this light. Color correction hasn't been a big issue for me. Yes the fluorescent light banks put out a nicer looking light, but I can work with the color I get from 1x1 LED lights. When I can afford to, I plan on buying a couple of the Flolight 1x1 30 degree daylight LED units to get me started.

Flolight recently switched to a higher output LED emitter ( which is why they have 3 times the output of the Lite Panel units ), and this new emitter is supposed to be CRI 93. I am hoping that this rating is true, but I am sure I can still work with the light if the rating is lower.
 
Noted Dingo and Josh. Your inputs are very much appreciated. I am not a lighting director so the nuances of the quality and characteristics of light is new to me. May I ask: how up-to-date is guy holt's review? Does it cover the new high output cri 93 leds? Dingo, are you happy with the skin tones of your subjects when you're using LEDs as key?
 
eric teotico said:
Dingo, are you happy with the skin tones of your subjects when you're using LEDs as key?
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Yes, but keep in mind that I have 20+ years of professional photography on my side, so I am pretty adept at lighting and getting the look I am after.

Color wise I've rarely had a problem with LED lights, but I do color balance any new light with their own gel pack that I keep permanently attached to the light. The cheaper LED lights tend to have a green or blue spike which you have to gel to control, and every LED light is different, sometimes even from the same manufacturer, but if you figure out the proper gel pack, you are good to go.

Also keep in mind that you must diffuse LED lights just like a open-face tungsten light if you want to get soft gradation and smooth highlights from them. This is why I am also keen on picking up one of the Chimera 1x1 soft-boxes made for the Flolight, so I can see how efficient the diffusion is. On paper it looks very good, less than 1 stop of light loss.
 
eric teotico said:
I checked out the article of Guy Holt at the Screenlight and Grip News letter and I found it an eyeopener on LED's characteristics. As a summary it's lighting characteristics are not yet on par with cinema lighting.
Click to expand...

eric teotico said:
… how up-to-date is guy holt's review? Does it cover the new high output cri 93 leds?
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Yes, everything Guy Holt says about Phosphor White LEDs in his article applies to the new 5mm LEDs FloLight uses in their Microbeam 1024. FloLight might be using a higher wattage Phosphor White LED, but it is still subject to the limitations of the Stokes Shift Process by which all remote Phosphor LEDs generate “white” light. And, since remote phosphor technology makes it possible for LED manufacturers to tune the output of their luminaries to obtain high CRI ratings and deliver good color rendering to the eye while delivering generally poor color reproduction on the screen, CRI ratings alone should not be taken as a measure of the color rendering capability of a light. Especially when they are not backed up with information regarding the rating of each CRI color patch or information about their spectral distribution.

You have to be wary of claims made by LED head manufacturers like FloLight because they are obviously spinning the scientific data which has a tendency to cloud issues.

White Hot Josh
 
White Hot Josh said:
You have to be wary of claims made by LED head manufacturers like FloLight because they are obviously spinning the scientific data which has a tendency to cloud issues.
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Completely agree with Josh here, but I would apply this to ALL LED manufacturers.

These days it's very rare to find a manufacturer that tells the whole truth about their product, so I prefer to run my own tests when I can, so I can see what real world results look like. Most of todays gear is good ( even if it doesn't meet the claimed specs ), but it's up to you to figure out how to best use it. Right now my biggest issue with LED light sources is light output, as the variation can be huge between different brands and types of lights, and I need to balance with bright daylight coming through a window pretty much all the time.
 
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