Studio Monitors

Chris Langer

Chris Langer

Well-known member
Hello everyone,
I am looking to purchase two studio monitors for editing audio in Premiere in my studio. I am using Audio Technica ATH-50 headphones and some Klipsch THX computer speakers - want something a bit more precise for mastering. I am running it on the Mac Pro, so let me know if I need any amplifiers to get it working on a computer.

Thanks,
Chris
 
Just to clarify: you've used both "editing" and "mastering" in your post, seemingly interchangeably. These are very different parts of the process, and there's a hole in the middle where mixing should be. Are you wanting to do all of your own audio post-production, or do you plan to send an OMF or AAF to a sound post facility?

Also, do you have any kind of professional audio interface to your computer, or are you using an internal sound card with 1/8" output? The latter is not going to give you the best results beyond consumer-grade multimedia speakers (which you're already using), and those are obviously not accurate for post-production. Adding a small USB interface gives you professional i/o, which also adds input for a mic to record VO (even for scratch VO).
 
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Yes sorry, just looking for an all around solid setup somewhere under $750. I don't need to send anything to post houses, need to do it on my own. I am just using the headphone jack on the Mac Pro trashcan, no expansion sound cards.
 
Most good studio monitors are powered these days (no need for an externl amplifier). There are viable options from Genelec, KRK, Tannoy, Mackie, M-Audio, and Yamaha. It really depends on how accurate you want/need them. Also, is your edit suite acoustically treated? The best monitors in the world won't do you any good in an untreated room.

Look at the Focusrite series of USB interfaces to add a better output. Also, Auralex has some basic room treatment kits that will help tame your room if it isn't already treated.
 
If you mean "Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 Computer Speakers" then that is a POWERED system which means it has its own amplifiers built-in.
http://www.klipsch.com/promedia-2-1-computer-speakers/details
Please provide explicit references if you are asking about particular products. Else we have to guess what you mean.

I just got a pair of JBL LSR305 speakers and I would have far more faith in them than in that low-end Klipsch system.
http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/3-series/lsr305#.VMZo_yvF-So
 
Yeah, I bought the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 awhile back for gaming and since then I purchased another setup for that, so I moved these to my editing bay. The room is treated pretty well for my price point at the moment, nice and enclosed with insulation. Nothing fancy, but I don't need super fancy right now.

My musical friend swears by KRK and they are priced nicely. I would just need to get a monitor controller for inputting everything in the Mac? Do I want to add a subwoofer to this setup?

Thanks for your input everyone so far!
 
Chris Langer said:
The room is treated pretty well for my price point at the moment, nice and enclosed with insulation. Nothing fancy, but I don't need super fancy right now.
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What does this mean? Am I understanding correctly that you're referencing insulation inside the walls, and that you're talking strictly about "treatment" from noises outside the room? That's not what I'm talking about.

Do you have bare walls in there? You need to add some absorption, possibly a little diffusion, and most certainly some bass traps in the corners. Reflections in the room will make the speakers sound WAY off from what is actually happening. Corners of rooms are essntially big bass amplifiers, making low-end frequencies stronger. If you don't know this, you might be inclined to EQ all that low end out of your sound. Play it back on another system somewhere else and you'll wonder why there's no low end.

Chris Langer said:
I would just need to get a monitor controller for inputting everything in the Mac?
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Monitor controllers are for managing output from the computer, not input to the computer, and you only need one if you are managing multiple pairs of speakers. Look at the Focusrite interfaces I linked above. They will give you both input and output.

The 1/8" output on most any computer, laptop or desktop, is generally not the highest-quality connection and most often is not well protected against internal RF, leading to strange noise interference. Adding a USB interface isolates the audio I/O from internal components.

Chris Langer said:
Do I want to add a subwoofer to this setup?
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Not without acoustic treatment, including and especially corner bass traps.
 
I just used basic R-13 insulation in the walls but yes, the walls are bare. Sorry for sounding like a noob, I don't know much about this stuff.
 
I don't recommend a sub unless you are doing a ton of mixing and your main monitors have small drivers...like 6 inches or smaller. I used the Mackie HR824's for a while. They can push air pretty well but found they didn't translate all that well to the theater. I've never been a huge fan of KRK. They work, but just sound bland to me, but I know people that use them and like them. I stay away from Event powered monitors and Blue. Both brands have given me distortion in the mid-range at all amplitude levels. My personal favorite is the JBL LSR series. They are fierce and can be easily calibrated to your room. They aren't cheap, but they are oh-so worth it. I've only used Genelec when doing music, and they are great for that. I haven't used them for sound design and sound editing, but I gotta believe their higher end stuff is good.
You'll need an interface of some sort to plug these powered speakers into, and they can be found easily enough at all kinds of costs. If I were to buy a new one now I'd probably get a focusrite. I currently have a Mackie Onyx Blackjack which is really basic but has done exactly what I need it to do, but soon my needs will be expanding.
 
Sort of on-topic question, but how much is all of this really necessary? What kind of work is being done that needs to be that precise? I only ask because the video work I produce typically goes to youtube where people listen with crappy computer speakers or low grade headphones. I do all my post audio work monitoring with Sony 7506's and then also test them on cheap computer speakers. Obviously if you have the time and the money why not. But I guess my question is, at what point is insultating your house and using external audio cards to drive high end monitors just overkill for a typical indie production?

What are you making and where is it going?
 
roxics said:
Sort of on-topic question, but how much is all of this really necessary? What kind of work is being done that needs to be that precise? I only ask because the video work I produce typically goes to youtube where people listen with crappy computer speakers or low grade headphones. I do all my post audio work monitoring with Sony 7506's and then also test them on cheap computer speakers. Obviously if you have the time and the money why not. But I guess my question is, at what point is insultating your house and using external audio cards to drive high end monitors just overkill for a typical indie production?

What are you making and where is it going?
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There is a valid (IMHO) argument for using a lousy monitoring system if you are mixing for people also listening on lousy playback gear (cheap plastic "computer speakers", iGadget earbuds, etc.)
It has been a long tradition for having a small, cheap, intentionally lousy speaker even in a high-end studio specifically for checking the mix on limited-bandwidth speakers, etc.

OTOH, virtually ALL "computer speakers" are pretty bad for attempting any kind of serious evaluation, mixdown, mastering, etc.
IME, it is safe to simply dismiss anything labeled "computer speaker" no matter what "brand name" is on it, or what it's retail price is.
And many systems that come with "subwoofers" are even worse, with significant holes in the spectrum around the crossover frequencies.
Lots of "thump" for satisfying explosions in your shoot-em-up computer game, but unsuitable for anything resembling serious music listening.
 
Here is what I will be using the setup for... Weddings, Corporate work, some commercial work, and a few indie films I edit a year. Like I said, nothing extremely fancy. I was just looking for a low-cost alternative to these computer speakers I have now.
 
roxics said:
Sort of on-topic question, but how much is all of this really necessary? What kind of work is being done that needs to be that precise? I only ask because the video work I produce typically goes to youtube where people listen with crappy computer speakers or low grade headphones. I do all my post audio work monitoring with Sony 7506's and then also test them on cheap computer speakers. Obviously if you have the time and the money why not. But I guess my question is, at what point is insultating your house and using external audio cards to drive high end monitors just overkill for a typical indie production?

What are you making and where is it going?
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Valid question, and the last sentence really sums it up.

If it's a toss-away YouTube video who cares.
When you talk Indie though it gets trickier. Which Indie? The Miramax Indie or the highschool student shooting on his iPhone Indie?

If it is something that is going nowhere then again doesn't make that much difference. But how many filmmakers have you met that own that? "Yes I'm a filmmaker but I never expect my films to be shown to anybody but my friends"? Not bloody often. So on a list like this unless otherwise stated I generally assume that if you are not making money now of your filmmaking you intend to at some point down the line.

IF you are heading for the professional zone then you really need to raise your bar sooner than later. The more Cr@p films with your name on it the less likely anyone is going to pay you to work on their film.

And if you are never going to do it professionally then it's a hobby and you should treat it as such. So if it's all about getting together with friends and goofing around with the camera on, go for it (and don't sweat the details).

But I'm a homebrewer (hobbyist) and I work pretty hard to produce an end product that is as good as anything you can buy in the store. And I am not nearly as anal as many.

The bottom line is that today for hobbyist prices you can produce a film that can stand with a "Hollywood" Indie (less than $30 mill) film in many genres. But it takes work and quality control and a lot of time. If that is what you want to end up with even if only your friends will see it then yes you do have to raise the bar and pay attention to quality and technique.

Or I guess the really short version is "is your joy in the making, or in the quality of what you make?".

For me personally I do this professionally and not as a goof. I am not in the crazy overkill zone that some hobbyists can go to, but I am also completely uninterested in doing low quality junk. I understand that others are making little films for fun and I don't have a problem with that, I do other things for fun that are in the same boat. On the other hand if you are struggling along and are trying to do something really interesting and with some polish then I may well help you out even if there is no $ involved. My pay off is doing something challenging and maybe learning something new.
 
On speakers,

As you can tell there are conflicting opinions.

My experience with KRK was that I thought they sounded muddy. But they may have been under powered in that system so?
I also am not a big fan of JBL and Tannoy I thought were similar. The powered Mackie HR824's I liked pretty well and Genelec I was finding overly crisp, but that again was someone elses set up and they LOVE bright so it may well not be a speaker fault but a set up fault.

Event were well liked by a bunch o sound editors, they thought they were like the poor man's Genelec.

What I have been using are unpowered Yorkville YSM1's, though I would get the powered version today.

I got them as a baby step from small powered Audix speakers because that were what I could afford and I liked the way they sounded. Every one that has spent much time in my studio has liked them and a number have mentioned how their ears didn't feel as tired as they normally would. I don't know if they translate particularly well (to the big screen) or if I just know them so well but they have long out lived the babystep stage.

No I would not get a subwoofer, probably. Are you going to be doing mixes that will be played back on systems with subwoofers? If so then maybe. Big maybe.

You don't necessarily need to go crazy with room treatment (depending on what you are doing). Mostly you want to break up flat surfaces as much as possible. Lining your walls with bookshelves with lots of books and stuff is a good way to do it in limited space and budget, and you get all that nice storage. Packing blankets will deaden the room but you don't want to do a lot of that probably. A rug on the floor is also a plus, or carpet.

Clap your hands together, if you hear a slapback you need to break up some flat space, or deaden it.

After that it is really how far do you want/ need to go for what you want to do. Once you are not an echoey mess then as long as you are not too loud you are probably OK for many things. To really tune a room takes some effort and just slapping up stuff, especially foam is probably a waste unless you can do some actual sonic mapping.
 
some of the best monitors I've ever used were Dynaudio. Funny thing is it was in the edit room that I did sound effects for Fear Factor in, and the SFX were buried by music. They are really expensive, though. For throw away web stuff, don't even bother with higher end stuff. I don't. For indie shorts and features, then throw down some cash on a decent pair of speakers.

Here's something fun to do..

Get 10 sound designers in a room, and ask them what speakers are the best for sound design, and watch the debate ensue.
 
Chris Langer said:
Hello everyone,
I am looking to purchase two studio monitors for editing audio in Premiere in my studio. I am using Audio Technica ATH-50 headphones and some Klipsch THX computer speakers - want something a bit more precise for mastering. I am running it on the Mac Pro, so let me know if I need any amplifiers to get it working on a computer.

Thanks,
Chris
Click to expand...

I was about to ask your budget - but you said $750 later.

For this use at this budget I would go for the Equator D5 or the Equator D8, both are within your budget.

They are both co-axial monitors which give an excellent stereo image and depth. They are fully active so you won't need an external amplifier and they are both a lot better than their price implies.

But make sure you drive them via a USB sound card, rather than direct from the computer as the standard in-built card will be pretty crap.
 
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